NefMoto > Technical > Tuning > Audi A4 B6 03' 1.8AT AMB solution?
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Author Topic: Audi A4 B6 03' 1.8AT AMB solution?  (Read 7703 times)
brandnew
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« on: June 11, 2016, 12:15:53 PM »
Good day, community.

;=====INTRO==================
I have an Audi A4 B6 03' 1.8AT AMB engine.
I bought it 3 years ago.
Since 3 months i got starting issues (misfires after start) and antifreeze leak.
After diagnostic it was found that AMB cylinder head got cracked. The head was repaired (welded) and renewed.
Since 1 year same start issues come again. The cylinder head got cracked again.

;====MAIN====================
I did swap the cylinder head to AEB (earlier 1.8T). It has larger intake runners. Also, custom intake manifold was made. Actually it was made from two manifolds (AEB+AMB) welded together to obtain the summary volume of 1.8 dm3.
Also, new  AGU engine (Skoda 1.8T) injectors were installed.
After all the modifications i got some starting issues. Well it always starts from 1st (0.5-1 sec) attemption but doing it with effort. I hear and feel that it is hard for a car to start.

The general question is:
1) Will it be enogh to swap TVUB values from AGU Skoda file to my AMB Audi original file to compensate injectors swap?
2) What others maps should i work on for new intake manifold geometry?

;=====PS=====================
At this moment i have no error codes. Long term fuel trim for idle is -2.7%. All seems to work fine (except of starting issues and high intake air temperature).

Thanks for all!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 12:17:57 PM by brandnew » Logged
littco
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 12:49:27 PM »
Quote from: brandnew on June 11, 2016, 12:15:53 PM
Good day, community.

;=====INTRO==================
I have an Audi A4 B6 03' 1.8AT AMB engine.
I bought it 3 years ago.
Since 3 months i got starting issues (misfires after start) and antifreeze leak.
After diagnostic it was found that AMB cylinder head got cracked. The head was repaired (welded) and renewed.
Since 1 year same start issues come again. The cylinder head got cracked again.

;====MAIN====================
I did swap the cylinder head to AEB (earlier 1.8T). It has larger intake runners. Also, custom intake manifold was made. Actually it was made from two manifolds (AEB+AMB) welded together to obtain the summary volume of 1.8 dm3.
Also, new  AGU engine (Skoda 1.8T) injectors were installed.
After all the modifications i got some starting issues. Well it always starts from 1st (0.5-1 sec) attemption but doing it with effort. I hear and feel that it is hard for a car to start.

The general question is:
1) Will it be enogh to swap TVUB values from AGU Skoda file to my AMB Audi original file to compensate injectors swap?
2) What others maps should i work on for new intake manifold geometry?

;=====PS=====================
At this moment i have no error codes. Long term fuel trim for idle is -2.7%. All seems to work fine (except of starting issues and high intake air temperature).

Thanks for all!

you shouldnt really need to mess with the maps for the manifold but you should look at the KRKTE and TVUB for the injectors for sure..
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Carsinc
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 07:50:53 PM »
Can I get both fuel trims? You have not said why you changed injectors,
Big turbo? Have you confirmed if your car has the 3or4bar fpr/filter. Well just get a
new filter.
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brandnew
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 02:19:02 AM »
After reseting adaptations 250+ km passed.
Now fuel trims are -0.2 for idle and -1.6 for partial loads.
I changed injectors because of new intake manifold. The AEB's intake manifold has different installation dimensions for injectors (EV-6E vs EV1.3E).

AGU injectors meet the requirements and have simmilar efficiency (252сс vs 258cc).
Haven't looked for KRTKE yet. But TVUB has difference.




No other modifications were done.

I think i won't mess with KRKTE as it is over my understanding at this moment. I feel it is hard to swap and adaptate values from M3.8.3 to ME7.5  system.
They have different constant names (KRKTE vs KHFM) with different factors and values (0.1039 for 8E0909518AF ME7.5   and  43860 for 06A906018CG M3.8.3  Huh)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 04:24:08 AM by brandnew » Logged
nubcake
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 07:46:49 AM »
You don't have to "copy" KRKTE if you know the exact flow of new injectors compared to stock. Basically, KRKTE is inversely proportional to injector flow. If new injectors flow more - you decrease KRKTE by the relation (252/258 * KRKTE_old - would be a new value). That being said, the difference is really minor and you can just leave it alone, yep.

Definitely copy over the TVUB values though - it should improve cold starts a lot.
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Carsinc
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 08:47:37 AM »
Change TVUB, considering your trims I'd bet fuel pressure is the same.
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_nameless
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 06:38:05 AM »
if you copy krkte your value will be wrong AMB has static 4 bar fueling and the other is 3 bar return with rising rate regulator
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316LV
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 04:33:53 PM »
When I re-did my KRKTE for TT225 injectors on my AMB I used this as reference: http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/tech/18t_injectors.html

Worked fine based on those numbers. Trims were 2.3% right off the bat.
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brandnew
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2016, 08:07:03 AM »
Quote from: Marty on June 13, 2016, 06:38:05 AM
if you copy krkte your value will be wrong AMB has static 4 bar fueling and the other is 3 bar return with rising rate regulator

Yeah, already was told, thank you.

Quote from: 316LV on June 13, 2016, 04:33:53 PM
When I re-did my KRKTE for TT225 injectors on my AMB I used this as reference: http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/tech/18t_injectors.html
Worked fine based on those numbers. Trims were 2.3% right off the bat.

Wow. Different sources have different numbers.

From bosch automotive catalogue:
AGU 0280150465 injectors - 194 g (Flow rate 3 bar/min, N-heptane)
AMB 0280156065 injectors - 189,7 g (Flow rate 3 bar/min, N-heptane)

This PDF told the same http://accurateis.com/store/23641354-Injectors-calc-flow-data.pdf

From another source http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/flow.htm
AGU 0280150465 injectors - 258 (cc/min @3bar) (petrol i guess Huh)
AMB 0280156065 injectors - 252 (cc/min @3bar)

From the source that you adviced:
AGU 0280150465 injectors - 205 cc (WTF?) flow capacity @3bar
AMB 0280156065 injectors - 282 cc  Huh flow capacity @3bar
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nubcake
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2016, 02:52:50 AM »
Quote from: brandnew on June 16, 2016, 08:07:03 AM
From bosch automotive catalogue:
AGU 0280150465 injectors - 194 g (Flow rate 3 bar/min, N-heptane)
AMB 0280156065 injectors - 189,7 g (Flow rate 3 bar/min, N-heptane)

I would use this info for reference.
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