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Author Topic: Fueling: Partial Throttle (E85).. need some advice  (Read 23360 times)
nubcake
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« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2016, 09:00:05 AM »

<snip>

What makes you think you're so special and he'll listen to youGrin Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2016, 01:17:03 PM »

Coz i am 10th telling him the same thing as 9 before and maybe, just mybe bc i have been running e85 summer n winter for 5 yeras now. But that a is long shot
I think it is the first thing Smiley
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:20:26 PM by Mocke » Logged
mister t
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« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2016, 01:34:36 PM »

I think what needs to be clarified is:

1) is the OP talking about enrichment during part throttle load changes?

or

2) running richer at steady state part throttle?

My read is that he's talking about enrichment during part throttle load changes (i.e. not WOT, but transitional throttle inputs)

If it's the case that he's asking about adding fuel during transitional load changes, then I think it's a valid question as the engine torque output during transitional throttle can be enhanced (i.e. making the throttle response 'crisper') by adding the appropriate amount of fuel as you tip in the throttle.

Personally, I can say that I've found that simply adding 5% fuel on increasing load via Unisettings on my 4.2 V8 made a noticeable improvement in how my car responds to throttle inputs.

In my case, the improved throttle response resulted in lambda dropping to 0.82 (only for a tenth of a second or so) following part throttle input. How, that's on E10 94 octane fuel. In the OP's case, he's running E85, so a very brief period of enrichment (say lambda 0.75 or so) following a part throttle input could enhance throttle response on his setup.

Jim, can you clarify that point?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:42:26 PM by mister t » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2016, 02:49:56 PM »

In the OP's case, he's running E85, so a very brief period of enrichment (say lambda 0.75 or so) following a part throttle input could enhance throttle response on his setup.

The question is if he's using enrichment to fix a *hesitation* problem, or to enhance throttle response... big difference.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:09:41 PM by nyet » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2016, 06:45:24 PM »

Yes Mister t that is correct.. spot on!  enrichment during part throttle load changes is what I have in mind. But also as Nyet says I had hesitations in the engine so i draw the concluson that i needed more fuel. I Have now managed to get slightly more fuel AND increased DWELL time and hesitations is almost gone. It much more stable. But im also starting to be suspicious about the ingition on E85. But mister T when you say Throttle response.. Do you mean by editing KFPED and increas KFMIRL? Or give it a bit more fuel iwch resulted in that?

One thing that came to my mind today was... Spark Plugs!!!!!!.. so i bought new ones and going to try them tomorrow. Shame on me if its just a spark plug problem Tongue
When this is solved its BOOST raising time Tongue !!!!


Mikhail I will soon work on the camshafts.. But thats a diffrent topic for now. Wink
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 06:50:54 PM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2016, 07:26:12 PM »

make sure to log injector idc as well to make sure you don't run out.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2016, 04:09:13 AM »

I changed plugs but the old ones were OK. I Disabled KR fueling and adjusted LAMFA a bit intstead and increased KFBAKL (Accel Enrichment).. I also increased MDGAT+KFZOUFIL_UM+KFZPU+some other toque maps. And re:tuned KFMIRL. Im now thinking that it coud have been torque intervention...? Im not satisfyed yet but its one step in the right direction i think.

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« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2016, 09:45:03 AM »

I changed plugs but the old ones were OK. I Disabled KR fueling and adjusted LAMFA a bit intstead and increased KFBAKL (Accel Enrichment).. I also increased MDGAT+KFZOUFIL_UM+KFZPU+some other toque maps. And re:tuned KFMIRL. Im now thinking that it coud have been torque intervention...? Im not satisfyed yet but its one step in the right direction i think.

that makes no sense at all, especially since

1) you didn't post any logs to back up your "theory"
2) just fiddling with things randomly and declaring something "fixed" doesn't mean anything.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
mister t
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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2016, 06:23:58 PM »

So one of the members (Mikhail) PM'ed me asking if I had a definition file for a 022906032CB ECU in order to alter his cam timing instead of disconnecting the hall sensor to get full retard.

As I didn't have a definition file, I took a crack at defining the VVT maps and this is what I came up with. (.kp posted below).

I'll admit, I'm not 100% certain that I've got them right as I've never seen a set of ME7.1.1 VVT maps like the ones in the .kp below.

What's really odd is the two 16x16 maps that I came up with.

Every other ME7.1.1 file I've ever seen has one or two main cam timing maps (usually 16x18) depending on whether or not it has VVT on intake or intake/exhaust and the remainder are 16x8.

That said, I tried just about every combination and configuration I could to get a 'normal' set of 16x8 maps and none of it worked. So I'm fairly confident that what I came up with below is correct.

The only real guess that I took was with respect to the 16 number long RPM axis. I took my best educated guess based on the where the axes were located relative to the other definitions I have, but without someone logging their 022906032CB equipped car and confirming the cam timing values relative to RPM, I can't say for certain that my definition is correct.

In any event, hope this helps Smiley

Mods, if you want, feel free to move my .kp to a separate 022906032CB definition file thread if you think it appropriate (as I may expand my map pack for this file if time allows since no one seems to have a definition file for it.)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 10:13:50 PM by mister t » Logged
Mikhail
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« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2016, 09:02:38 AM »

Thank you  Smiley
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2016, 01:35:37 PM »

that makes no sense at all, especially since

1) you didn't post any logs to back up your "theory"
2) just fiddling with things randomly and declaring something "fixed" doesn't mean anything.

Makes no sense?  So you mean it makes no sense if you change parameters in the ECU you will not get the car run good? And if no logs the car can not run better?  Whos the "makes no sense" here man. As i remember you said my logs were crap last time i posted VCDS log? Me7 Logger dont run with this ECU. Grin

But you here have the chance.. Give me something that you want me to logg that will make sense. And also explain to me what you mean by fiddling: here it goes:  KLMIMAX_UM KFMDBGRGA KFMDBGRGR KFMDHDRBG MDGAT KFMOF KFPZU KFRLMXPSK KFMOF_UM KFPZU0_UM KFPZU1_UM.. I think i missed some nut i can post all if intressted. these are the maps I fiddled with to get rid of the part throttle problem. They are all explained in the FR for MED9. And if you read there i tells you what they do... I adjusted them and got better result for partial throttle(LOAD)..  I admit its abit reverse engineering. But atleast I think im moving forward.
 


« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 01:37:36 PM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

E85oholic
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« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2016, 01:39:34 PM »

So one of the members (Mikhail) PM'ed me asking if I had a definition file for a 022906032CB ECU in order to alter his cam timing instead of disconnecting the hall sensor to get full retard.

As I didn't have a definition file, I took a crack at defining the VVT maps and this is what I came up with. (.kp posted below).

I'll admit, I'm not 100% certain that I've got them right as I've never seen a set of ME7.1.1 VVT maps like the ones in the .kp below.

What's really odd is the two 16x16 maps that I came up with.

Every other ME7.1.1 file I've ever seen has one or two main cam timing maps (usually 16x18) depending on whether or not it has VVT on intake or intake/exhaust and the remainder are 16x8.

That said, I tried just about every combination and configuration I could to get a 'normal' set of 16x8 maps and none of it worked. So I'm fairly confident that what I came up with below is correct.

The only real guess that I took was with respect to the 16 number long RPM axis. I took my best educated guess based on the where the axes were located relative to the other definitions I have, but without someone logging their 022906032CB equipped car and confirming the cam timing values relative to RPM, I can't say for certain that my definition is correct.

In any event, hope this helps Smiley

Mods, if you want, feel free to move my .kp to a separate 022906032CB definition file thread if you think it appropriate (as I may expand my map pack for this file if time allows since no one seems to have a definition file for it.)


Thanks ill take a look at this !!
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mister t
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« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2016, 02:24:35 PM »


Thanks ill take a look at this !!

So, had a chance to try and play with the cam phasing?

In case you didn't read my last tutorial (on another thread) on cam phasing, I'll re-post it here:

Depending on whether you have cam timing on the intake or intake/exhaust there will be 1 or 2 sets of maps that I will describe below.

The first type will usually be a 16x18 where the map axes are included right above (i.e. a Bosch type) Consider this a 'Main' map (this map will be a 8x12 on a 3.0 AVK V6)

Then you have 2 more sets (4 total) of 8x16 maps it appears that they're 12x16 in your case which are the ones that actually shape the curves (they are 'warm-up' and 'knocking inlet' respectively).

In order to shape the cam timing, ALL 5 MAPS IN EACH SET NEED TO HAVE SIMILAR CURVES. You cannot change the cam timing by just changing the 'main' 16x18 map. It will have a minor effect, but the 12x16 maps are the ones that actually form the curve, I suspect that the 16x18 map is only there for the 12x16 map values to be interpolated through and smoothed out.

Also, the axes for the 16x8 maps are not in the same location, they are in another location with a bunch of other 16 bit axes. You WILL need a DAMOS to figure out the locations. Even if you have a similar DAMOS, you can super-impose them and the map axes locations will be similar for all ME 7.1.1 vehicles.


Hope that makes some sense. Basically, just make all the respective intake or exhaust cam phasing maps the same shape.
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