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Author Topic: comparing maps in tunerpro after reading s4 wiki 1.8T S3  (Read 5007 times)
stuartdean
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« on: August 11, 2017, 05:04:10 PM »

Hi,

Clearly new to the forum and have a money pit S3 as a project which I want to fiddle with the map settings for a bit of fun.

I am just trying to construct a safe map upgrade for my old 8L S3.  I did buy an encrypted "stage 2" mapped ECU to replace my previous standard Stage 1 243BHP Map.  This new ECU didn't "feel" as fast up to 5K as my previous ECU even with 3in DP, B5 TIP, Cosworth S2000 cone filter, FMIC.

So I decided to look at the MAP on my old ECU and compare it to stock 225 and a 260BHP map provided to compare,  since then I have been given a revised map which has most of the BAM Stock settings, with adjusted LAMFA, Engine Load, boost protection.

Based on the Stock BAM Map I have started to create a nice curve of LAMFA (maybe a little too rich)
Increased the Engine Load LDRXN and LDRXNZK
Added the Soft Launch settings from the wiki
Maybe stopped the P0420 error I was getting on my Stage 1 Map - but reading the S4 Wiki - the CDKAT set to 0 and CWDLSAHK set to 0 may fail the MOT emissions test 0 - so they may not simply code the error out but the actual sensors.


My Noob question is really
"is the timing adjustment only really possible by experts on a dyno?  would there be any point in me copying the previous Stage 1 timing or would that likely to have been a generic map in any case."

I think the eBay ECU made power by timing adjustments as the MAF readings were only 200 and my previous map was 194.

I don't have forged rods and the engine is quite old, I am not expecting it to last long but I don't want to break it first day Cheesy

Is the Audi TT 240 Map readily available somewhere so I can see if that has timing adjustments? (Or is that the common Stage 1 Generic Map garages apply?)

By the way - I have not fitted this yet - just learning and comparing.

Thanks for any help Smiley

Stuart


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Dave9n3
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 07:22:16 AM »

Put whatever file on the car you are most happy with and start logging it. Then start increasing the timing based on the logs you take.

At the moment it seems like you're just trying to mash together a few files to get something decent. You could just start from the stage 1 and make adjustments as you learn or start from an original file and tune that yourself with logs.
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KasperH
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 08:43:15 AM »

Log. Adjust. Repeat.
It's a tedious process. Smiley
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stuartdean
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 01:51:55 PM »

Thanks for you advice - so it is essentially a bit like overclocking a PC - where you try a little bit at a time, check the logs to make sure its still okay / repeat? 
I put my car through hell trying to test the FMIC after going down the wrong route and popping hoses off left, right and centre - that's not how I usually drive but I assume this is the same hard driving testing required.

I assume the red flags are AFR too lean and timing retarding (ECU protection)

I'm clearly no expert

1. is it safe to start with timing from stock with some extra engine load and then tweak from there for extra power or is the timing advance required in order utilise the extra boost.

2. I followed some threads where some people only map in the "ecu protection mode" and set the EGT threshold to something low - is this to perfect a single map and then copy that into the main map and create a protection map? rather than having to tweak essentially two maps?

3. Finally,  (well for the moment Cheesy) is it possible on a standard S3 ECU to have 2 maps (one safe / one crazy)?  or is that 2 ECUs or a standalone - has anyone fitted 2 ECUs?


I have a 304KB Read ECU file from the encrypted map - does anyone know if this is achieved by some sort of "End Of File" marker in the ECU file which is ignored by the actual car but not by the MPPS / NefMoto interfaces

Thanks again - this is great fun - but like planning a fishing trip, I am "imagining" it will be better than the reality I am sure Smiley


Oh one more (sorry) question when the car is not in gear and really driving, it never has any boost pressure will the soft launch control amendments stop this.  This is where I came unstuck with the FMIC assuming because it was fine at 7K on the drive, it would be fine on the road, I was thinking about hooking up the Manual Boost Controller to try and see if that does this.

Stuart



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Dave9n3
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2017, 02:53:32 AM »

Yeah the best place to start reading is the S4tuning wiki. You want to get fuelling right first to ensure you don't melt anything.

Download tunerpro, find yourself an xdf file for your specific file and get starting. Oh and also be sure to download me7check and me7sum which are two command line applications used for checking and correcting the checksums. be sure to do this before you flash any files to ensure you don't brick the ecu.

With regards to logging yes, you want to set out as per the s4 wiki and also take a look at the stage 1 community thread which really helps. That thread will take you through all you need for doing a stage 1 file in the correct order. Logs are vital and also very useful if you need to ask for help on here. If you help yourself people on here will help you.

Yeah the 304kb read is not complete.

My advice would be to get a spare ecu from a breakers the same as yours. Use it to clone your ECU now by taking the contents from your 95040 chip and putting that on your spare ecu (this will require bootmode - useful for you to learn). Then flash a stock file on and learn with that. No risk then as you'll always have a backup. Then get started with the s4 wiki, stage 1 community thread, using me7 check and me7 sum.

There's so much to go over but I hope that helps
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adam-
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 05:06:59 AM »

To be fair, it sounds like you're pretty far ahead for a noob, fair play on actually reading!

Multimap is available but will either be custom code (which you'll struggle with at this time) or from an already mod'd file - which won't be the same as yours.  Leave it for just now and use your right foot as the map chooser. Smiley

Get logging sorted first and foremost, then get practise in reading/understanding the logs.

Add a good chunk of fuel.  Either fuel with BTS or lamfa.  I use BTS because of the resolution.

Add some boost.  Get logs.  If no timing pull, add more boost.  Log.  Repeat until boost is good, boost control is good (actual follows req) and you have no knock.  Once you're happy, add timing until knock, then back off.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 11:45:48 AM »

Perfect thanks this is really helpful,  I did already brick the ECU the first time due to check sums (luckily I didn't have the wipers on for the test drive so switched it back over in 5 minutes) - but I have sorted that out. 
What I think I will do is put the original stage 1 MAP onto the ECU in the car as that passed the MOT last year,  then get it through the MOT and follow your advice regarding the progressive tweak / test / tweak / test / tweak etc probably based on the standard stock BAM map, and as I understand it I should be comparing my "desired" with the "actual" and as long as "actual" is >=95% of "desired" that's is the sweet spot for the current components and engine health.

Do you know if it is possible to overwrite the MAP on the locked 304KB ECU without boot mode?  I am not really interested in the MAP contents which was supplied - it was advertised as 285+ - but the general opinion on the ASN S3 forum are that the injectors are maxed out at 270ish in any case, so this would then be my backup ECU

Also I think the me7Sum developer is a member here, did the original project download include the me7sum.exe file as only the source code seems to be provided now, maybe it was removed to ensure cross platform compatibility?

I know the connecting rods are the main risky point here - but as the K04 and Injectors are going to struggle to go past 270 - am I only really concerned about boost onset to try and safely taper.


Thanks - this is going to be fun Smiley (although slow going as it is supposed to be a project and not a full time job Cheesy)



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nyet
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »

Also I think the me7Sum developer is a member here, did the original project download include the me7sum.exe file as only the source code seems to be provided now, maybe it was removed to ensure cross platform compatibility?

The binary download links are provided in the thread starter:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3347.0title=

I removed binary attachments on the posts because people kept downloading old versions, and I was having trouble keeping track of which messages had attachments.

If you are downloading the github zip, that obviously does not contain executables, it is literally a snapshot of the github source repo.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
stuartdean
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2017, 12:48:32 PM »

arrh perfect -  thank you so much for replying - I think I got confused with the ZIP files I had downloaded and maybe when I first looked at this thread, I wasn't logged into nefmoto and perhaps some download links don't work unless you're logged in, this is great thanks again for your quick reply.

and in answer to my own question I took a flyer to see if I could overwrite the locked ECU map and it worked although this took MPPS a lot longer than with my other ECU - it took about 5 minutes of cycling around before even asking me to switch off the ECU and start writing?  I have read back the map and it is now 1024KB.  so winner Smiley





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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 12:54:43 PM »

As a side note: ME7Sum may not work with S3 bins.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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