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Author Topic: med9.1 n00B HERE  (Read 21511 times)
gman86
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« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2018, 05:50:22 PM »

If the car is using this information in its calculations it's good enough for my purposes.  Although my strategy didn't seem to work.  As I preemptively added fuel before the requested load to prevent knock, but still ended up in BTS.  Although I raised BTS on the High Load, High Rpm it was still limiting me extremely. 




BTS will kick in with excessive EGT, not just KR. EGT is calculated with, among other things, ignition efficiency.
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bobbyz0r
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« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2018, 06:34:29 PM »

BTS is also more than just KFLBTS if that is the only part of BTS you have modified.
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bbowers
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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2018, 02:26:15 AM »

BTS is also more than just KFLBTS if that is the only part of BTS you have modified.

Yes, I am trying to not change BTS at all.  I was just surprised that I changed to 11.91 AFR and it was still getting such high projected EGT and was kicking me into BTS at 3500RPM. I am going to change my LAMFA to request a richer AFR sooner and see if I can prevent BTS activation this way.  If I can not safely prevent BTS activation, I will revert to stock tune and Look into getting a downpipe before attempting to gain anymore power.
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bbowers
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2018, 06:22:42 PM »

While I didn't get it so BTS doesn't kick in, it seems the car is designed to do this from the factory.  So I just start out lean from the highest torque rich setting afr at .77 and go from there.  While BTS is kicking in, it is doing it much later and with much less aggressiveness, since the heat isn't as out of control as stock tune or with my previous lamfa numbers.  Starting the values from right before peak boost to take into account for the delay of .2 seconds that lamfa likes to follow, as well as building up the enrichment through peddle placement from 85-77 through pedal placement seems to be giving me the results I was hoping for.

Thanks for everyones input.

I plan to convert BTS back to stock and to continue to adjust pre-emptive enrichment through LAMFA only.  This will ensure good low end torque, and lower high end EGT temps.  My timing was never pulling more than 1.5 degrees-3, and it wasn't pulling at all at high range.  I suppose this means I could advance the timing a bit more and watch for correction.  This could potentially leave me with lower EGTS as well which would stop me from going to the BTS even longer.

Unless PRJ wants to come in and tell my I'm wrong again. hahha
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bbowers
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2018, 11:13:06 PM »

Here is my timing. I read that 1.5-3 timing pull is good?
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prj
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« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 05:46:02 AM »

0.75 lambda is massively killing power and you will run out of fuel.
I think you need to learn a bit more about mapping in general not only about the ECU strategies.
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Kacza
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« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 10:25:18 AM »

prj what AFR do you think is the best?
12.5 at 6000rpm?
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bbowers
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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2018, 03:20:06 AM »

0.75 lambda is massively killing power and you will run out of fuel.
I think you need to learn a bit more about mapping in general not only about the ECU strategies.

It's almost like you are purposely spreading misinformation.
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gman86
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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2018, 04:00:39 AM »

It's almost like you are purposely spreading misinformation.

He's not completely wrong.

Although if the car has stock cats, anything leaner will start to burn them up.
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prj
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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2018, 07:42:01 AM »

It's almost like you are purposely spreading misinformation.

I think that was the last information you are going to get from me.
While talking shit keep in mind that I do this for a living and have remapped dozens of these cars on my 4wd dyno and you opened the file for the first time.
Hence why I knew exactly what the car is going to do before you even changed anything.

But yeah have fun.

He's not completely wrong.

Although if the car has stock cats, anything leaner will start to burn them up.

100% bullshit, with the stock turbo at 0.8 lambda with 95 DC you can hold it basically forever at 6000 RPM WOT without any EGT issues.
But hey, how would you know that, right?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 07:44:08 AM by prj » Logged

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gman86
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« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2018, 09:31:10 AM »

100% bullshit, with the stock turbo at 0.8 lambda with 95 DC you can hold it basically forever at 6000 RPM WOT without any EGT issues.
But hey, how would you know that, right?

After seeing a car strugging to make 250bhp on stock cats with a "map" that had previously done 360bhp a year previous, it turned out the 0.82 request from the 2+ file was enough to kill the monolith in the primary.

"But hey", to quote an arsehole, what has that got to do with anything? I'm willing to bet big bucks that you've never had an EGT probe pre-cat on an EA113 with this particular configuration to prove me wrong. You're just waving your tiny arrogant virgin cock about again for the sake of appearing authoritative.
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prj
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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2018, 11:45:17 AM »

After seeing a car strugging to make 250bhp on stock cats with a "map" that had previously done 360bhp a year previous, it turned out the 0.82 request from the 2+ file was enough to kill the monolith in the primary.

"But hey", to quote an arsehole, what has that got to do with anything? I'm willing to bet big bucks that you've never had an EGT probe pre-cat on an EA113 with this particular configuration to prove me wrong.

K03 car and 360hp. Right. A stock car is what we are talking about here, in case you missed it.
How much is "big bucks" and where do I send my paypal to? Because I have, hence my claim above.

As for your other insults, I guess you are what, 20 years old?
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bbowers
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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2018, 04:25:58 AM »

I haven't read anywhere that we should go .85 to redline on this engine stock... which seemed like what you were applying.  Also, none of my logs show me hitting .75 in mid range. I am just unsure of what direction you are suggesting I go. It seems that you are trying to convince me that I should go leaner, which IMO is not safe and that is probably why there is a built in fail safe for exactly this from the factory.  The problem with this stock engine seems to be prevented only by the EGT temps, and there is no information that I have found that would suggest anyone should go to .85, or even .8 to redline with 93 octane fuel anywhere.

While the most respectable tuners in the US aren't deviating much from the stock numbers of 10.5-11.2 AT MOST....  I am unsure why many people on this forum seem to suggest that we should change the BTS maps to .82 completely, and the like.  It is hard to tell what you are trying to say when you give vague responses.  Almost as if you are actually afraid to give any real information and are only quoting information you have read somewhere else.  I didn't mean any offense, it just doesn't seem like you are giving information in the best interest of the reader, but rather to make yourself seem superior and knowledgeable....

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bobbyz0r
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2018, 04:47:12 AM »

I haven't read anywhere that we should go .85 to redline on this engine stock... which seemed like what you were applying.  Also, none of my logs show me hitting .75 in mid range. I am just unsure of what direction you are suggesting I go. It seems that you are trying to convince me that I should go leaner, which IMO is not safe and that is probably why there is a built in fail safe for exactly this from the factory.  The problem with this stock engine seems to be prevented only by the EGT temps, and there is no information that I have found that would suggest anyone should go to .85, or even .8 to redline with 93 octane fuel anywhere.

While the most respectable tuners in the US aren't deviating much from the stock numbers of 10.5-11.2 AT MOST....  I am unsure why many people on this forum seem to suggest that we should change the BTS maps to .82 completely, and the like.  It is hard to tell what you are trying to say when you give vague responses.  Almost as if you are actually afraid to give any real information and are only quoting information you have read somewhere else.  I didn't mean any offense, it just doesn't seem like you are giving information in the best interest of the reader, but rather to make yourself seem superior and knowledgeable....



You should read up on direct injection. There really isn't a need to go much richer than 0.8 or so for knock prevention. And the last log you posted, actual lambda seems to be right around 0.75 at 3000rpm to my eyes. Post up some logs including requested lambda, not just actual.
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prj
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2018, 05:43:15 AM »

I didn't mean any offense, it just doesn't seem like you are giving information in the best interest of the reader, but rather to make yourself seem superior and knowledgeable....
My knowledge on this subject is superior to you in every way shape and form.

And you know why?
Because your entire argumentation is "I haven't seen others", "What others do", "What I think others do".

Do you know why that is? Because you don't know shit. And you won't ever know shit if you continue this pathetic train of thought.

Let me give you an example of how I think:
"After rich best power any additional fuel is used to control ignition angle efficiency and also exhaust gas temperature, so let me put this car on a dyno and see where it makes the most power by setting a safe ignition angle, using short runs to prevent overheating and enriching in increments until the engine starts to lose power. Now let me advance ignition angle to the best possible at this operating point, use higher loads on the dyno and longer pulls to make sure I am not exceeding the specified component temperature limitations, and set protection functionality accordingly".

Do you know why that is? Because I know how an engine works and I can think for myself.
And I'm telling you from my own experience that running 0.75 lambda target is a total waste of time with the stock turbo. You will make less power, and you will not have any EGT issues even at leaner mixtures, because the stock turbo does not give enough boost at the top end where EGT becomes a problem. In laymans terms you don't need to chuck black smoke out the back to prevent meltdown when you're running 0.75 bar boost on top with the wastegate jammed.

It beats me though, where you read anything about "0.85 lambda" whoever said anything about that?
If you want to see my calibrations without any "vagueness" - the exact numbers I am using for everything - you can always pay me to tune your car.
I am not here to tune your car or anyone elses car, I am here to try and make you use that noggin of yours - but it seems lately it's more and more a waste of time, because we're flooded with snowflakes demanding instant gratification.
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