Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: ME7.1 Hardware Question  (Read 1960 times)
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +368/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 8513


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 10:17:50 PM »

its not much of a simulation rather than a scalled output of the actual wideband output. I have a pair of LC2'shttps://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php with the Bosch LSU4.9 sensors waiting to go in...


Fair enough... I guess your not making any headway unless your blowing shit up LOL

I don't really see the point, honestly. The auto trans can't handle more than about 400wtq anyway, which you can get to trivially with entirely stock O2s, MAF, larger injectors and a pair of K04s.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
prj
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +261/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 3315


« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2018, 05:12:19 AM »

This entire thread can be summed up as blowing hot air (pun intended).

I'll be damned if anything ever actually comes to fruition.
Logged
woj
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +11/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 283


« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2018, 10:07:40 AM »

First thing - discovering small variations of ethanol content (like around ~5%) - this is what lambda sensor is for and I cannot imagine anyone to be bothered to adjust other running parameters (ignition / boost) based on that. Even better, I have seen cases of desperates running E85 on stock maps and relying on long term fuel trims to adjust to the new fuel.

About doing code changes: I do not see how converting to wideband is "almost impossible", I have done it on an IAW ST10 based ECU, was not that much work - I used original lambda flag for enabled-ness of correction and added a simple proportional controller over what in Bosch would be rkte I guess (the required fuel mass). ME7 have very well defined task intervals and making it into a full blown PID controller is also doable (which I have also done, but for a boost controller). It does require serious programming skills, doing serious disassembly and finding the places in the code to hook into, but I would not say this is much more difficult than doing a 5120 hack properly, if not easier in some sense.

Proper flex fuel I have also done, and it would have been reported on here already, if not for the fact that I have problems getting my shit together to do live car tests. I have a full direct sensor plug-in implementation on my bench ECU, which I have dry tested inside out, it has an interrupt procedure to measure pw-s for frequency and fuel temperature straight from the sensor, DTC reporting, limp mode on errors, and what not (hat off to prj for some ideas and hints). Skill wise, this one certainly goes beyond 5120 hack / wideband addition, requires going through the whole code to get the interrupt priorities right, knowing the CPU interrupt architecture, and all that. Would not advise it to anyone that wants to stay sane. There are of course solutions possible with intermediate hardware that prepare an easy to handle 0-5V signal, it should be then a tad easier.

But all this is indeed a very very very long road, I can promise you that. I did my first disassembly in 2007 IIRC, "simple" (have not thought of them as simple at the time) code patches in 2009/2010, and more serious stuff (PID based boost controller added to an ECU) in ~2013. That should give you the idea of effort required.

Would not have even start to write all this if I did not have a question for nyet: which particular cases of ME-s and narrow band simulations do you know of to cause problems? I am yet to try Zeitronix to feed narrowband signal to my ME7.9.10 ECU long term (I did some experiments last year, but only stationary and on idle), I never had problems with it on other ECUs. I have heard (from unconfirmed sources though) that Innovate is not so good for this. So I just want to know if this is general truth, or particular setup issue.
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +368/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 8513


WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2018, 10:16:06 AM »

I am yet to try Zeitronix to feed narrowband signal to my ME7.9.10 ECU long term (I did some experiments last year, but only stationary and on idle), I never had problems with it on other ECUs. I have heard (from unconfirmed sources though) that Innovate is not so good for this. So I just want to know if this is general truth, or particular setup issue.

Innovate and spartan both do not work correctly, both have impedance matching issues. Not sure about zeitronix.

Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
woj
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +11/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 283


« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 11:48:41 AM »

Innovate and spartan both do not work correctly, both have impedance matching issues. Not sure about zeitronix.

OK, so there could be an issue, because during my experiments I got "P0130 - Intermittent lambda signal disruption, short to GND" (at least that's what MultiEcuScan said), I attributed this to power cuts to Zeitronix (had it connected to the lighter socket then) when cranking. But impedance sounds to me like ECU picking up shorts / not seeing the circuit. I also noticed that the signal was more jerky / discrete, while the one from the stock sensor was floating nicely. My only preference to plug it in instead of the pre-cat lambda was because of accessibility, will have to rethink that...
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +368/-41
Offline Offline

Posts: 8513


WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »

OK, so there could be an issue, because during my experiments I got "P0130 - Intermittent lambda signal disruption, short to GND" (at least that's what MultiEcuScan said), I attributed this to power cuts to Zeitronix (had it connected to the lighter socket then) when cranking. But impedance sounds to me like ECU picking up shorts / not seeing the circuit. I also noticed that the signal was more jerky / discrete, while the one from the stock sensor was floating nicely. My only preference to plug it in instead of the pre-cat lambda was because of accessibility, will have to rethink that...

Yep. The problem is the ECU has very low input impedance to mitigate noise/crosstalk, and neither the spartan or innovate can drive enough current. Somebody would have to fab up a simple op-amp driver circuit, but for most people who just want it to work, that is just another headache.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
prj
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +261/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 3315


« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 12:24:22 PM »

I've had no issues with the LM-1...
Zeitronix seemed bang on as well.

Meaning narrowband o2 and wideband o2 agreed perfectly in both cases.
Logged
_Adrian_
Newbie
*

Karma: +0/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 04:37:03 PM »

Another option is to use a different ECU.

After some research and a bit of digging I found that the ME7.1.1 from a B6 A4 ( 3.0L ) has dual primary wideband sensors, however it will require the matching harness a bit of rewiring will be needed to make it work. This may be a better suited option as it would not only allow me to do away with the Ignition drivers that are prone to fail on the 2.7 but also would be less of a "hack the harness" deal. I already removed the SAI and secondary O2's as I have installed 3" catless down pipes. i will have to dig around and see what I can find and start hoarding parts and go from there...

Logged
_Adrian_
Newbie
*

Karma: +0/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2018, 04:41:54 PM »

I don't really see the point, honestly. The auto trans can't handle more than about 400wtq anyway, which you can get to trivially with entirely stock O2s, MAF, larger injectors and a pair of K04s.

I have an RS6 rear subframe with the axles and differential headed my way as a starting point for my 01E swap, and currently may have found an 01E that fits the bill butmay need some fresh syncros and a quick look over.

The only reason why I mentioned it's auto is because I'm planing to start this process now rather than wait after the conversion...
Logged
nubcake
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +41/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2018, 05:08:59 PM »

3 liter engine:
1) has continuous cam adjustment on all 4 cams.
2) is NA

Good luck making that ECU work properly on 2.7.


Seriously, this whole obsession with widebands has no practical meaning for a moderately tuned car. Hell, even 600+hp stage3 cars get away with narrowbands somehow.
The stated concern about "being able to DD the car" looks even weirder in that context - because "normal driving" is exactly, where NBO2s operate fine: ECU will mostly try to run at stoich.
Everything that you mentioned can be reliably achieved with stock(ish) ECU configuration.
You can just have an external WBO with a gauge, if that makes you feel safer - but properly tuned car won't really need that.


Regarding all the other requests/questions:
Speed-density for ME7 series has been done, it's relatively easy to implement at this point (won't be very cheap, though).
Map switch for several pre-sets - even is posted here for free.
Map "blending" based on ethanol content sensor - again, can be done.
Hell, you can also have WBOs if you absolutely insist. But:
- It'll be a hack, relying on external controllers, since 7.1 lacks hardware for that.
- You'll have to cover development costs, which are going to be quite significant for something, that basically only you want & could use.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 05:11:05 PM by nubcake » Logged
Marty
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +85/-66
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031


« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2018, 07:26:01 PM »

i just tuned srm hybrids on stock narrowband sensors today. used wbo2 for logging. made 517whp had no problems
Logged

Bische
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +23/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 393



« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2018, 02:54:51 PM »

Totally doable, it's actually on my list to implement WBO2 -> 2.7t softwares.. Tongue

Just craves for alot of time in terms of custom code, but can certainly be done Wink
Logged

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.023 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0s, 0q)