Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Med9.1 stock KFPED vs KFMIOP/KFMIRL  (Read 6574 times)
Garfimp
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« on: December 18, 2018, 06:17:29 AM »

Hello all,

I have been struggling a lot recently to get a proper way to tune KFMIRL/KFMIOP, and have found a lot of precious information on this forum, it has been a very precious source of information, thank you nefarious community.

However, during my selfquestioning about KFMIRL/KFMIOP relationship and tuning, I noticed something, and I must be mistaken, but would need clarification from the experts.

Let’s take a med9.1 S3 stock maps :

KFPED stock and KFMIOP attached.

At 3000 rpm, 85% pedal, the driver requests around 98% torque. (mrfa)

If we take a look at stock KFMIOP, we have at last line max torque around 85/86% (mimax) :

If we look back at KFPED, 85/86% is the torque requested at around 65/70% pedal depending on rpm.

Does it mean that from 65/70% up to 100% pedal, we will have same torque request and thus same load capped by mimax in KFMIOP ??
Seems really strange that half the pedal is “useless” so maybe I missed something ? Smiley



Edit :

Went again on your very good S4 wiki guide, and found "Done properly, mimax should be safely high enough to never limit torque request, such that it is higher than mrfa from KFPED." for the tuning part. So meaning that stock it is not the case ?

I think LDRXN stock is around 170/175 max for the load (rlmax) so in KFMIOP, if I understood correctly we have mimax around 80% torque. Meaning in stock when mrfa > 80% we have the same load output? because it is capped ?

And when tuning, usually KFPED is stock I guess, and thus often to 100%, so when tuning KFMIOP, the row corresponding to rlmax should be higher thant 100% torque?

Sorry if I ask noob questions, I keep searching... Smiley
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 08:01:04 AM by Garfimp » Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 10:21:47 AM »

The short answer is that whatever the max torque (mimax) request is coming from IOP at 100% PED should result in enough requested load from IRL (by increasing IRL) to hit the LDRXN cap, or you will be limited by LDRXN->IOP->mimax->IRL and not IRL->LDRXN

I hope that makes some sense.

Increasing IOP isn't generally needed, it really should mostly be the inverse of IRL, which means when increasing IRL, only the IOP axis needs to be adjusted.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 10:44:05 AM »

The short answer is that whatever the max torque (mimax) request is coming from IOP at 100% PED should result in enough requested load from IRL (by increasing IRL) to hit the LDRXN cap, or you will be limited by LDRXN->IOP->mimax->IRL and not IRL->LDRXN

I hope that makes some sense.

Increasing IOP isn't generally needed, it really should mostly be the inverse of IRL, which means when increasing IRL, only the IOP axis needs to be adjusted.

Ok thank you very much nyet !
That makes more sense now.

So I tried a quick tune of my soft, targetting 192 load in LDRXN, now from what you said, I extended IOP axis to include 192 load, and extrapolate inside values of IOP, I get a new mimax for my 192 load around 83/84 torque.

Then in IRL for 83/84 % torque I have updated loads to match to my IOP and so match my targetted load of 192.

Pictures attached, did I do correctly? Smiley

Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 10:56:42 AM »

I believe so... but if you have issues feel free to post logs and I will try to help.

It is a really complicated topic so don't feel bad about getting confused. I have to reread the FR every time.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 11:05:29 AM »

I believe so... but if you have issues feel free to post logs and I will try to help.

It is a really complicated topic so don't feel bad about getting confused. I have to reread the FR every time.

Thank you again really appreciated ! I finish my Stage 1 soft and will my flash and log my car and keep you updated with great pleasure Smiley

Do you think I should open a topic to present my work on my stage 1 btw?

Also, can I try to rescale KFPED to make it a little more "responsive" between 60 and 100%?
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 04:15:27 PM »

Thank you again really appreciated ! I finish my Stage 1 soft and will my flash and log my car and keep you updated with great pleasure Smiley

Do you think I should open a topic to present my work on my stage 1 btw?

Also, can I try to rescale KFPED to make it a little more "responsive" between 60 and 100%?

Yes to all of the above.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 04:19:31 PM »

Also, keep an eye on the HBN cap as well Smiley
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
gman86
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +45/-128
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 05:35:32 PM »

The short answer is that whatever the max torque (mimax) request is coming from IOP at 100% PED should result in enough requested load from IRL (by increasing IRL) to hit the LDRXN cap, or you will be limited by LDRXN->IOP->mimax->IRL and not IRL->LDRXN


Wait, what? LDRXN is a requested load cap vs RPM. IRL is requested load vs %TQ request / RPM. I thought IOP was a reverse lookup table that was at the end of the chain.

Actual load vs RPM goes into IOP to produce an "actual" torque % output that can be reported.

No?
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 08:07:46 PM »

Yes, but LDRXN also goes into IOP to generate mimax, which limits mrfa from IRL
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 09:54:45 PM »

"Done properly, mimax should be safely high enough to never limit torque request, such that it is higher than mrfa from KFPED." for the tuning part. So meaning that stock it is not the case ?

I should clarify this sentence... it mainly applies to 100% throttle areas of KFPED. I have changed the wiki accordingly, since, as you rightly point out, there are many of part throttle areas (stock) which do no obey this rule.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 02:05:23 AM »

Yes to all of the above.

Ok I will do that, in another thread then  Smiley


Also, keep an eye on the HBN cap as well Smiley

Thanks for the tip, already modified in my mod, I will share the details in the topic I will create Smiley
Edit : topic created here : http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=15359.msg121101#msg121101   Wink

I should clarify this sentence... it mainly applies to 100% throttle areas of KFPED. I have changed the wiki accordingly, since, as you rightly point out, there are many of part throttle areas (stock) which do no obey this rule.

Indeed I 've been thinking again about this... And even with my Mod I don't know how to make mrfa > mimax for a lot of the last rows from KFPED ...
In KFPED from 75/80% to 100% pedal, it will have an output of mrfa between roughly 85 to 100% torque, and even with LDRXN set to 192, in KFMIOP it gives a mimax of around 83% torque, so mrfa>mimax for a lot of the last rows of KFPED... Or am I mistaken?

And is it really a problem if mrfa>mimax for those throttle areas? If yes, I don't know how to avoid this if not lowering the KFPED in those areas to be below mimax... Here for instance I would modify KFPED between 75 to 100% pedal to have mrfa below 83% torque ?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:21:43 AM by Garfimp » Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 09:51:46 AM »

No, it is fine for mrfa>mimax, just make sure IRL requests enough load for that capped torque.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +604/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 12232


WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 09:58:57 AM »


Thanks for the tip, already modified in my mod, I will share the details in the topic I will create Smiley
Edit : topic created here : http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=15359.msg121101#msg121101   Wink


I've moved it to the community section Smiley

Thanks for your work and excellent documentation of what you are doing.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
Garfimp
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 10:09:24 AM »

No, it is fine for mrfa>mimax, just make sure IRL requests enough load for that capped torque.

Ok thanks again Nyet Smiley

I've moved it to the community section Smiley

Thanks for your work and excellent documentation of what you are doing.

Oh.. you are very welcome, it is only beginner's work and questions...thank YOU for this forum !
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:23:08 AM by Garfimp » Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.024 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.001s, 0q)