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Author Topic: Beginners starting point for setting up the Boost PID TT BAM Hybrid  (Read 1117 times)
stuartdean
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Hi, I haven't been here for a while but I modified my TT BAM after dropping a 5mm allen bit in the inlet #doh
Forged Rods, new rings and bearings, Inconel SuperTech exhaust valves, skimmed head, FMIC, B5 TIP, Cosworth S2000 Filter, 3Inch DP + Sports Cat and a Hybrid K04 CHRA in a stock / ported hotside and 15psi actuator, ported chinafold manifold, Bosch 550 EM14 Injectors, 3 Bar FPR

I have been trying to set up a safe map and think I have the fuelling right after resizing and setting the voltage offset from the s4wiki, and have a basic understanding of the BTS, LAMFA, KFMIRL, LDRXN, KFMIOP - these I played with on my Stock K04 and stage 2 modifications. Pre-rebuild I struggled to advance the timing so I am still on stock timing (but post rebuild the timing has held up quite well).
Whilst trying to understand the best route forward regarding the Wastegate Duty Cycle,  with some pointers I have set the Maximum Waste Gate duty cycle TVLDMX, which I understand is a safety net - I have tried a few settings and 27% appears to be a stable starting point.

I know the tables involved are KFLDIMX and KFLDRL and clearly a stock BAM map is much higher than the current Maximum I have set.

I have attached my currently installed BIN and a log from this morning with a 3rd gear pull to 6400.

I have seen some discussions regarding LDRAPP <-- is this a tool?  but most of the threads appear to be regarding S4 with twin turbos.

many thanks for any pointers or directing to the correct area Smiley

(I updated the CSV as it didn't work in ECU Plot after I changed the column order but this version does)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 05:01:24 PM by stuartdean » Logged
Bitshifter
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 04:10:15 AM »


I have seen some discussions regarding LDRAPP <-- is this a tool?  but most of the threads appear to be regarding S4 with twin turbos.


LDRAPP is not a tool. Read Datasheed for MED9 aka Funktionsrahmen or look at S4 Wiki and you will find more information about LDRAPP Wink

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stuartdean
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 09:03:44 AM »

Thanks I will take a look,  I will say I am struggling with this a little - my biggest problem is I dont like red-lining my car after spending so much time and money building it - and a lot of these tests involve change a setting floor it to get a log and hope it doesn't break  Undecided

I even woke up in the night discussing an inlet value breaking and for some reason re-using the same head gasket Cheesy Cheesy
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Tikki
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2019, 01:42:21 AM »

Lol @ your dream Grin. If you want a starting point maybe do a few runs with fixed WGDC using CWMDAPP = 8 then setting KFLDRAPP (revs vs pedal position). This way you can safely see how your turbo boosts with safe limitations. Plus you will be gathering logs for the linearization tables ->> http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.0
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stuartdean
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 02:00:03 PM »

arrh thanks - I will check that out,  I was just popping back on this forum as I seem to be hitting intervention if I am just driving normally when I have a max WGDC > 27% making it a nightmare to try and improve things,  I am planning to save up a bit and get over to Badger5 in a few months - but nethertheless I still want to learn all this (we all know driving a project car is just the test for what you want to change next) - it really is so much more difficult than simply changing a stock map when you only update the air flow and leave the stock turbo, injectors and actuator eg increase a bit of fuel and load and try some minor timing advance if the engine is happy

I am pretty happy with the fuelling side - the log follows the map even though the desired torque actually is delivery a much higher actual torque. I just need a nudge in the right direction from my logs I am about a stage 1-2 map with a stock turbo but from 5K instead of 6.5K - but it really does feel like I am changing far too much without a full understanding of them, as an example I am trying to see if overboost is causing intervention by disabling the intervention by adjusting KFDLULS (pressure change for overboost protection diagnosis) and TLDOBAN (Time for LDR overboost active) which just feels dangerous.

I will look at the fixed WGDC and roll back to my original post injector settings and post FKKVS_FIXER MAP

I was thinking about getting a 3inch cat back exhaust but the stock TT cat back is not causing any of these issues.

Thanks for your help  Grin I really appreciate it.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 02:58:19 PM »

This thread you have provided is exactly what I needed - I hope that the car manages to continue without overboost intervention in order to create the logs (I am not sure I will go as far as 80% as that is apparently ~2bar - 30% is near the MAP Sensor limit at 2400mBar

Thanks for the "nudge" that I needed Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.30  <-- it really is a ground up approach to creating the starting position for the PID

to be fair I am surprised the resellers of the hybrid turbos / CHRAs etc dont provide a starting point PID for them - as these should not be dependant on the rest of the hardware should it?
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aef
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 11:54:22 PM »

Rest of the hardware will have a big effect on the spoolup and overall behaviour of your turbo.
Its not possible to provide a pid starting point with a turbo.

read this http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=12352.0

Would start with a stock file. Do it yourself and it will be better than "the english way" @ badger.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 02:43:53 PM »

Thanks for the pointers - how times have changed from trying to fit a twin-webber carb to an escort mark 2 1.3 - to essentially becoming a maths expert Cheesy

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stuartdean
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 05:47:29 PM »

wow that is an amazing tool in VS2015 Cheesy Cheesy

will adopt this feed-forward mindset will re-read the thread again whilst gathering logs Smiley
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stuartdean
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2019, 08:41:56 AM »

Hi,
I wonder if someone can help me please?

I am trying to do some logs for the feed-forward mapping approach.

I am setting the calibrate item to 8 and LDRAPP and have run 0, 10, 20, 30 (I previously set the max limit to 28 so assumed these were a safe set to start with)

when looking in the log files the WasteGate is 0 as expected in the 0 file, but then 3.9, 7.8, 11.7 instead of 10, 20, 30?

I have attached the 30WGDC Map and the accompanying log file.  Is the XDF Parameter incorrect or something?  there is no equation in the XDF I am wondering if it should be something like X / 2.56 - or are there other offsets coming into play here?

I am not going to do any other logs for the moment.

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aef
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 12:35:11 AM »

no log attached
will have a look into your file later today
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Tikki
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 08:03:45 AM »

Hi,
I wonder if someone can help me please?

I am trying to do some logs for the feed-forward mapping approach.

I am setting the calibrate item to 8 and LDRAPP and have run 0, 10, 20, 30 (I previously set the max limit to 28 so assumed these were a safe set to start with)

when looking in the log files the WasteGate is 0 as expected in the 0 file, but then 3.9, 7.8, 11.7 instead of 10, 20, 30?

I have attached the 30WGDC Map and the accompanying log file.  Is the XDF Parameter incorrect or something?  there is no equation in the XDF I am wondering if it should be something like X / 2.56 - or are there other offsets coming into play here?

I am not going to do any other logs for the moment.



Right this sounds like your .xdf has the wrong equation setup for KFLDRAPP:

10 wgdc = 3.9, yes?....     therefore     3.9*2 = 7.8 (20 wgdc)     and    3.9*3 = 11.7 (30 wgdc)

You are out by a factor of 0.39

The solution I believe is this:

1. In the parameter tree left click on KFLDRAPP and then go to 'Edit XDF Parameter info'
2. Go to the conversion tab, click 'Edit Global Table Equation' and then click 'Edit'
3. Whatever the equation says, do not change it, just add this to it; *0.39

    for example, if it says: X*0.123456     then make it      X*0.123456*0.39      if it just says X          then make it X*0.39

4. Click, ok, ok, ok.

edit: use 0.390625

This should fix your issue



« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 08:09:02 AM by Tikki » Logged
aef
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 04:00:13 PM »

great answer and totally correct!

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nyet
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 05:33:26 PM »

Indeed.
Code:
$ grep -a LDRAPP 8D0907551M.csv | cut -f 10 -d ,
"0.390625"
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stuartdean
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 06:03:55 PM »

thats cool thanks - it will work better than my x / 2.56  which had a similar effect.

I will make the correct changes to the XDF

I have done a few logs using the calibration mode - does it purposely reduce the loading?  I seem to only get to 114% actual load even though the boost pressure is going up the map sensor?


also I am getting the ESP light lighting up at 6K RPM on my 30WGDC and 5K RPM on the 40WGDC.


17963/P1555 - Boost Pressure Control: Upper Limit Exceeded
16487/P0103/000259 - Mass Air Flow (MAF) (G70): Signal too High


Also when I use the SB GLI C# KFDRL program and upload my logs the figures go crazy high like 5000 Mbar?  even though none of my logs exceed 2450mbar?  I know that the tool was originally used on a 1.8T so it cant be that?  I have even trimmed out all the data that isn't 100 throttle plate and faked the 100% throttle plate on a low 4WGDC as it could only get to 88% throttle plate on 100 PED? I am wondering if I can manually fill out the table fro the logs.

I have a hybrid turbo and wonder whether it is giving out strange readings?  if I leave the default range to 75 / 0.1 seconds I doesn't create any figures for 20 or 40?

I have tried to zip together the logs - to see if anything obvious becomes apparent and will re-read the pre-control / feed-forward threads Smiley







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