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nyet
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« on: March 05, 2012, 03:54:46 PM »
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Hey guys. I'm used to dealing with the North American B5S4, none of which have immo.
I'm trying to learn how the Euro RS4 immo (and Allroad/A6) immo works with respect to ME7.
Is there an idiots guide to interoperability? I.E flashing a non-immo image onto an ECU for a car that has immo?
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SteveAR
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 04:11:44 PM »
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I don't know of one complete guide, but there's alot of good threads which you can learn from by searching. I believe the image, with respect to the portion of software that provides engine management, is seperate from IMMO related stuff. The immobilzer SKC, VIN, key code etc are stored on a small EEPROM on the back of the ECU on a ME 7.1.1 ECU. The engine management info is on another IC on the front side of the PCB. My allroad is a ME 7.1.1 with IMMO3 and I'm using a tool from this website(ME7_95040) to read the small serial EEPROM to extract SKC and other relevant data. To do a flash I believe traditional methods work. E.G. galleto cable, nefmoto software etc. It MAY be necessary to know the SKC before one can flash, I'm not sure, maybe someone else can speak up on that. For IMMO learning, I think the Ross-tech Wiki / webpage provides some good info: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer |
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nyet
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 05:22:51 PM »
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So if I have, say, a RS4 with immo and I want to flash its ECU with a non-immo image (say mbox), what's the process?
I'm a noob and know nothing about IMMO.
I read the ross-tech page, but it doesn't really tell me what to do to switch back and forth between immo and non-immo images/ecus etc.
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 05:24:32 PM »
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SteveAR
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 05:37:41 PM »
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So if I have, say, a RS4 with immo and I want to flash its ECU with a non-immo image (say mbox), what's the process?
I'm a noob and know nothing about IMMO.
I read the ross-tech page, but it doesn't really tell me what to do to switch back and forth between immo and non-immo images/ecus etc.
Well, the first thing you have to do is figure out what ECU family you're working with before you even have to worry about immobilization system. For example, a 2001-2003 S4 has a Bosch ME7.1 ECU. My 2004 Allroad has a Bosch ME7.1.1. You CANNOT take a .bin file from/for a ME7.1 and flash it to a ME7.1.1. Even though both ECU's were used to run the 2.7T motor the actual ECU's (hardware) are not interchangable. So I would say you have to first look on your ECU or research to find out what the Bosch PN of the ECU is. Then you can determine what files you can flash to it. You might (or might not) be able to flash a "mbox" file to it. Not sure. What are you looking to do? Flash a stage III m-box file to your RS4? This is all very tricky business and it's easy to brick a ECU. I would suggest doing what I'm doing right now; buy a spare ECU and connect via a bench flash setup to practice the process. Otherwise you may end up at the dealer shelling out thousands of dollars for a new ECU and/or for them to re-flash your ECU etc. (if you can find a dealer that's willing to do that) |
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roet
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 02:04:18 AM »
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is it common that this procedure does not work on a W12 master/slave configuration?
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 09:56:53 AM »
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So I would say you have to first look on your ECU or research to find out what the Bosch PN of the ECU is. Then you can determine what files you can flash to it. You might (or might not) be able to flash a "mbox" file to it. Not sure.
What are you looking to do? Flash a stage III m-box file to your RS4
Thanks. Right now I'm trying to flash a RS4 D box car with an M Box bin... so both are 7.1, but the Dbox is euro immo. |
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SeRiLLo
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 01:30:09 PM »
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Thanks. Right now I'm trying to flash a RS4 D box car with an M Box bin... so both are 7.1, but the Dbox is euro immo.
It will not work =), you must first fix the dump of eeprom chip ST95040 (512b) or 95p08 (1024b) for cut out immo checking. Because the dump of an immobilizer chip will still be checked by ECU program, regardless of the maps set in 29f800 |
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nyet
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 01:56:09 PM »
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Serillo: thanks. Can you be specific about what I have to change? The owner doesn't care if the immo no longer works. Again, i'm a total noob to immos, so please be patient  thanks. |
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ArgDub
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 11:10:17 PM »
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To disable immo, change byte 12 and 22 from 1 to 2 then update the page checksum. Setzi made a very good write up about eeprom checksums, but for practical reasons just subtract 1 from the 14th byte of memory page 1 and 2 (EEPROM is divided into 32 pages with 16 bytes per page). You can use my tool or any programmer to write eeprom back.
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SeRiLLo
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 05:42:46 AM »
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Serillo: thanks. Can you be specific about what I have to change? The owner doesn't care if the immo no longer works. Again, i'm a total noob to immos, so please be patient thanks. nyet, it seems I don't quite correct to understand you at first time. I thought that you want to flash the image to the rs4-box and put it on s4. But if you want just a flash m-box dump to RS4 ecu on Audi RS4, you no need touch immo - immo should continue to work. But then you get other problems: 1. volumetric effeciency of rs4 intake very different in comparison to S4(piping, intake manifold, head intake ports). Сorrespondingly maps of this ECUs have a different settings to achieve optimum engine performance. That's why I am suffering with flashed into allroad ecu rs4 dump on my 3.0 TT project with rs4 intake, rather than flash m-dump. 2. 551F don`t have a ignition coils checking, i don`t know about 551k and now i trying to find a description of the maps for this file and has already manually found a lot of maps in hex code. |
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SeRiLLo
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 05:52:06 AM »
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To disable immo, change byte 12 and 22 from 1 to 2 then update the page checksum. Setzi made a very good write up about eeprom checksums, but for practical reasons just subtract 1 from the 14th byte of memory page 1 and 2 (EEPROM is divided into 32 pages with 16 bytes per page). You can use my tool or any programmer to write eeprom back.
for many cases suitable this procedure: Browse to the hex position 0x000012 and increment by 1. Browse to hex position 22 and increment by 1. Now browse to 1E and minus by 1, and 2E and minus by 1. And for example this is a cleared dump of 95040 from me7.5 ecu: |
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 10:00:08 AM »
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nyet, it seems I don't quite correct to understand you at first time. I thought that you want to flash the image to the rs4-box and put it on s4. But if you want just a flash m-box dump to RS4 ecu on Audi RS4, you no need touch immo - immo should continue to work. But then you get other problems:
1. volumetric effeciency of rs4 intake very different in comparison to S4(piping, intake manifold, head intake ports). Сorrespondingly maps of this ECUs have a different settings to achieve optimum engine performance. That's why I am suffering with flashed into allroad ecu rs4 dump on my 3.0 TT project with rs4 intake, rather than flash m-dump.
Not a problem the car will be retuned anyway. 2. 551F don`t have a ignition coils checking, i don`t know about 551k and now i trying to find a description of the maps for this file and has already manually found a lot of maps in hex code.
What does ignition coil checking do? |
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SeRiLLo
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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2012, 12:13:16 PM »
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What does ignition coil checking do?
check misfires in each cyl and set error. 551F does not have misfire checking |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2012, 08:28:31 PM »
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I was under the impression that the M-box code doesn't check or care about immo at all.. so regardless if the actual car has immo (cluster and valid EEPROM data) the car will start anyway.
I think about it this way... NA B5's didn't have IMMO.. but they all had the EEPROM chip w/ valid data as far as I know (since that is how some tuners protect their tunes).
Also I've been told that flashing an M-box on a 2002 Allroad (which has IMMO) will disable IMMO completely.. I would think it is the same way on the RS4.
Just food for thought. That said, I'm currently trying to incorporate IMMO into my S4.... If it's not too much trouble Nye, would you be able to get your hands on the stock flash (D-box) and the matching EEPROM dump from that ECU if it's not too much trouble?
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