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Author Topic: fuelling map changes for a 4bar FPR BAM 1.8T with Bosch 550s  (Read 18507 times)
Awaken
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 08:55:44 PM »

YMMV, can agree to disagree, there are a zillion ways to skin a cat.

Agreed.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2019, 04:47:12 PM »

okay so anyway back to me.... Tongue

I have dropped the load right off - not interested in that stuff until I know I am safe to push on Wink

reminder genuine bosch 117's (550) + DW265V + AET VT262C(370) + intake + 3inch turbo back

I have put in the K-RK-TE (I separated as I believe the RK is related to the RK_W (airmass) and TE is time <-- ?


KRKTE = 0.06205

and TVUB from the gif provided on this here forum.
7.96     10.000   11.97    14.01   15.98    - Volts
2.6990   1.5389   1.1201   0.7308   0.5227  - Offset



I have cleared faults and clear adpations and when the coolant wad operation temps this is my STFT and LTFT - which I think are stable and correct? the STFT go from (about) -4 to +4 and the LTFT are (about)1.5



so as this seems correct, am I supposed to be testing fuel at a load?  I did a low(ish) boost earlier which still caused AFR Current for 0.5 seconds to go the wtong direction and react instead of stay up with my desried?









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nyet
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 05:48:00 PM »

why are you using a camera to take pictures of your screen?
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stuartdean
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2019, 06:45:43 AM »

he he, I was videoing it to see if the STFT reduced when the LTFT compensated.

I tried the removal of dipstick to introduce unmetered air but the STFT didn't jump up to 20% which was on the ross-tech youtube video of how to check and fault find by using fuel trims.

I have now used a xls calculator for KRKTE - from on here, which made it 0.599 for (...117s) 550s  I put in 544cc/min

Can I please have some guidance on whether the process to ensure the fuelling settings are okay?

This is what I think I need to do (still on 3bar FPR)
1. set KRKTE and TVUB
2. warm up car
3. check STFT are cycling ~ -4 to +4 or closer (on idle)
4. check LTFT is about 1.5  (on idle)
5. set car to a safe low powered map
6. log for > 30 minutes cycling through all the gears driving at different revs, and then use the FKKSFixer app to set the FKKS table.
7. check STFT are cycling ~ -4 to +4 or closer to zero (on idle)
8. check LTFT is about 1.5 or closer to zero (on idle)

I dont know what to do if the STFT and / or LTFT are not any good at idle? how to adjust TVUB or KRKTE to get the STFT and LTFT looking good? 

also if STFT and LTFT are acceptable at idle does that mean it also is okay on partial throttle and WOT?

I have today
1. reset my actuator to 2mm pre-load - 16.5psi at 0% WGDC is surely too tight.
2. installed an inlet manifold spacer - to reduce heat soak between block and inlet manifold
3. set my map to my target lamfa setup
4. set the map to a fixed wastegate 10% and will do to logging runs
   a.  with N75 unplugged so wastegate 0%
   b.  with N75 plugged in so wastegate 10%
  These are to start collecting the data for the LDRAPP


What I think may have been happening is the boost was coming in too quickly for the injectors to adjust - so when I want 0.8 LAMBDA that was DESIRED meeting ACTUAL until the Turbo got going then suddenly ACTUAL drifts away from DESIRED for 0.5 seconds - the IDC was only about 50% at 3KRPM - I dont understand why the ECU didn't go okay have 22ms of fuel instead of 16ms?

this is an example of the AFR straying when the Turbo starts delivering 23+ psi







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nyet
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2019, 01:45:38 PM »

Why are you posting screen shots of excel? Just post logs.

Please don't post xdfs either.

Also, forget about boost until you get krkte STFT/LTFT idle/part right. Stop trying to fiddle with 3 million things at once. Focus on one thing at a time. you literally don't need more than 1.5 bar to calibrate fueling at this point.

The discussions about how to adjust TVUB/KRKTE and scaling KFKHFM are literally exhaustive, not sure what you are asking for.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 01:48:04 PM by nyet » Logged

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stuartdean
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2019, 12:48:39 AM »

Thanks nyet.
I tried to just highlight the symptom with the screen shot,  but will upload the logs from now. I am wondering whether changing the lamfa delay to 0 instead of default 10 ms

I have seen some of the fuelling discussions,  but was hoping to find a definitive guide,  as I've struggled identifying the methods in amongst discussing the results. And what discussions are for 1.8 versus 2.7. I will take another look at the injector migration thread. 

Thanks for you advice




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nyet
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2019, 09:12:34 AM »

Thanks nyet.
I tried to just highlight the symptom with the screen shot,  but will upload the logs from now. I am wondering whether changing the lamfa delay to 0 instead of default 10 ms

All of that would be much easier to visualize in ECUXPlot. Also, I don't like all those 2559s. Not sure why they're there at all, they shouldn't be. You didn't appear to heed any of the warnings around running near the ME7 absolute pressure limit Tongue
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stuartdean
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2019, 10:39:53 AM »

as you pointed out - I seem to be trying to sort loads of stuff out at once - 10% WGDC actuator is going up to the limit, even with 2 turns of preload - I dont get this, but instead of trying to sort that out at the same time - I will focus on confirmation the fueling is correct first for this 10% WGDC about 19psi

I will post back once I have re-reviewed the migration to EV14 thread with my results and what I have done. I assume it is okay to simply use a 4 Bar FPR with a decent DW265V fuel pump and the correct KRKTE and TVUB settings - or is that exceeding the designed limit of both the injectors and pump?

in the s4wiki it says if you are stock injectors and FPR you dont need to touch the settings,  but surely if that was the case then the settings widely used for TVUB and KRKTE for my bosch 550s would be right too - or can even the stock injectors, fpr and pump be tuned? 

I will try the latest XDF for BAM as some threads mention tables,settings other than TVUB, KRKTE and FKKVS for setting up the injectors.




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stuartdean
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2019, 11:06:57 AM »

Hi,

Okay so I have calculated my KRKTE and TVUB in the following way.

I used the calculation from the VWVortex web site - but I do have a question over the constant - I copied the n-heptane 0.684 - is that the correct one for 99 octane petrol in the UK?  it looks like there is a variation of constants depending on the fuel type?

then I got the difference between 43.5 and 39.15 and multipled the OFFSET by this to then in turn multiple the dead times provided by nyet in the migration to ev14 thread - is this the correct thing to do? I somehow got 1.1119 as a multiplier yesterday I thought it was the multiplier between 39.15 and 43.5 but I must have typed something in wrong as that is 1.11111

well anyway my new settings have been on there for about 90 minutes of driving, 50 miles in 4 journeys including idling and driving up to about 5K (just in case fueling is really bad)

you can see my fuel trims - can anyone confirm the left hand of block 32 is the LTFT for Idle? it looks quite good at 0.19% - and is the centre value the part load fuel trims? at 1.56% - do I need to adjust the KRKTE by 1.56% so update from 0.06016 to 0.06076 and reset and try again?

I have also attached a short log but not a power run, just to see if the AFR Current is following the Target.


I do have a question over the Load % for the KRKTE ms/% load the closet thing I can find is rk_w so if I divide 14.0534  / 0.06016 =‬ 233 and rk_w is 237 - but my requested load is 191% and the actual load is 188% on that specific line - so I am struggling with what makes the 237 in rk_w and whether that is derived from an actual value or desired?


Nyet mentioned about scaling the MAF - if I have a stock Bosch MAF for the same part that came with the car and the base car map is the original stock map - am I still expected to fine tune the MAF scaling?

Many thanks for your advice (sorry the images are not contextually embedded)




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stuartdean
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2019, 10:59:07 AM »

Hi, Sorry for the bump - but can anyone help with my questions about the "long term fuel trims "


is 0.19% okay for IDLE LTFT and 1.56% okay for PART THROTTLE LTFT (I think that is what the measuring block is showing?)


and also my original issue was with a lot of boost from the start I had a problem where it was going lean desired 0.8 actual 0.95 ( or even worse)  but the injector on time was only about 70% IDC - so I had a question over the ms/load % data source and whether that was my issue?

thanks for any help - I have held off making any changes without the guidance.
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nyet
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2019, 12:33:49 PM »

yes those are both totally fine
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2019, 12:36:16 PM »

and also my original issue was with a lot of boost from the start I had a problem where it was going lean desired 0.8 actual 0.95 ( or even worse)  but the injector on time was only about 70% IDC - so I had a question over the ms/load % data source and whether that was my issue?

post logs with complete variable set.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2019, 12:19:34 AM »

Excellent,  thanks for your replies,  I will do a couple of logs,  a low boost one which is okay and then one a bit over the map sensor.
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stuartdean
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2019, 11:23:36 AM »

hi sorry for the delay - I have a log with fixed waste gate ok at 12% and 15% (20% is blowing hoses)  and a variable < 18% low power which has waivered and looks like triggering enrichment of 0.75 at 5 seconds into run.

"mixed wg lost afr" demonstrates the waivering - at such a low powered run - it's worrying - but I did slightly raise KRKTE on that map as I was getting cold start issues when sometimes the car would start then sputter and misfire and even stop.


the 12WGDC log has all the fields in the csv, I somehow lost the cfg on the subsequent runs.  but it doesn't seem to lose touch current AFR versus Desired AFR in the same way the latest log with large KRKTE - can increase in KRKTE actually reduce the fuelling instead of increase it?


I could try the map with the variable wgdc and krkte the same as 12wgdc to see if the AFR stays inline with desired?




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nyet
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2019, 08:03:00 PM »

That is an enrichment i've never seen before (its not reflected in req lambda) but I am seeing that huge lean spike, followed by a gigantic lean lambda correction, which seems to trigger the enrichment, but for some reason it never comes back.

That said, you definitely need to fix the sporadic lean condition. Bad injector, fpr? Definitely not good but I dont think it is related to tune.

Also, you really shouldn't see that much boost with only 15% wgdc.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 08:45:13 PM by nyet » Logged

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Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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