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Author Topic: Interesting read abt bosch torque model  (Read 4287 times)
Ceff_by
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« on: July 19, 2019, 08:28:59 PM »

Gathering info abt MEx, lurking through forums and here and there docs, spotted that:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/40a0/6500f35526d2b5122f7ab53d185c5dbd235d.pdf


Havent spot it here or somewhere on forums, seems interesting, coz forum info still very controversial. Page 10 — makes me Smiley
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nyet
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 09:36:57 PM »

Interesting paper about torque based ECUs but i got to this

Quote
Confusion of the accelerator pedal for the brake pedal, or simultaneous application of the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal, are fictional explanations for sudden acceleration promoted by the auto manufacturers to avoid legalliabilityin a court of law. 

Author may be smart but should eat a dick for this bullshit alone.
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Ceff_by
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 10:27:59 PM »

Interesting paper about torque based ECUs but i got to this

Author may be smart but should eat a dick for this bullshit alone.

Agreed. But nice diagrams and pretty clear explanation of torque model as well.
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 10:36:39 PM »

Ya. Glad the s4wiki made a footnote too Smiley
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woj
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2019, 12:05:14 AM »

Interesting paper about torque based ECUs but i got to this

...

Author may be smart but should eat a dick for this bullshit alone.

I am not sure I understand your concern about this statement.

I am yet to read this to see what the rumble is about, but from what I have seen by scanning it the message is that a badly calibrated control algorithm can go out of its tracks, duuh...

There is one point though, that bothered me for a while now. If there are maps that are meant to be inverses of each other, and for performance reasons they are not calculated on the fly, why does the ECU not check their correspondence (with some reasonable error margin) during initialization, along with the checksums, etc. Not only it would add robustness to the system, it would also eliminate about 30% of posts around here Wink
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2019, 12:13:41 AM »

Because just about every crash of this kind historically was caused by a moron who confused the gas for the brake, and there is no evidence whatsoever than any error of the kind described by the author has ever been the cause.

If anything, poorly calibrated IOP just ends up in excessive intervention, not "unintended acceleration", a completely fabricated boogieman that nearly killed Audi because people are fucking retarded.

As far as an autonomous check for an inverse on boot; stock IOP/IRL are often actually way off in some places.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 12:15:17 AM by nyet » Logged

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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2019, 12:29:42 AM »

Despite my criticisms, page 11 has a remarkable diagram.
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RBPE
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 04:32:36 PM »

We looked at this a while back;

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=12518.msg103704#msg103704

With the numerous safety features/multiple points of measurement I would have thought it would default to the throttle position to that of idle (2%) in limp mode once any measurements ouside the control perameters are read/calculated by the ecu, no?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 06:06:14 AM by RBPE » Logged
ruan
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2019, 07:22:02 AM »

Love the immediate jump into Bosch world var names as soon as it goes into the enthusiast section! Nice explanation of how the torque controller works though!

I take most issue with the author's comments about whether the brakes can overcome the engine - they're saying that you can't stop the engine and demonstrations are unrealistic because it shifts down to 1st gear and is WOT and at maximum RPM. Any (standard...) car I've come across, it's (standard) brakes would happily stall an engine from max power no matter the gear, it would take a fair amount of brake force I'll admit if it dropped down to 1st/2nd, but by the time the speed is low enough for it to have got it to shift to a lower gear, there would be a fair amount of force being applied by the driver as the engine starts powering up.
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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2019, 12:38:21 PM »

While his analysis of the torque control system is pretty good, just about all of his actual conclusions are suspect, including the one you mentioned. I agree about overcoming brakes. Not going to happen. Period. Ever.

I could personally make up just about any scenario to force any of the ECU control systems to go open loop for a short while, but eventually, they would throw a dtc and the car would go limp.

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GolfSportWagen
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 05:48:27 PM »

For the record I have tested the brakes can't stop the car theory @ WOT on numerous U.S. and Euro models in both the U.S. and on the Autobahn in Germany. Any modern car that I have seen most definitely WILL bring the car to a stop @ WOT regardless of gear including autos that downshift to first gear as the vehicle is slower @ WOT. Those who claim they were unable to stop their vehicle clearly lacked appropriate driving skills to understand placing the trans in neutral or shutting off the ignition will bring the car to a halt much faster. Panic is often the problem.
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