Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup

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andre-77

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	Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « on: April 01, 2021, 01:43:24 AM »

Hi everybody.
Attached there's a log of my 1.8t APX engine and mine engine setup.
There's something wrong but i can't understand what, up from approx 4000 Rpm there's an intervention that cut of my boost and raise up the cylinder ignition retard up to -8.5°, i don't know if could be only caused by a wrong KFLDRL/ PID setup or could be a timing / torque interventions.

Any comments regarding it will be appreciate, thanks.


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nyet

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 09:46:57 PM »

You are running past the pressure sensor limit, which you have been told repeatedly not to do.

You are literally going to damage your motor if you continue to ignore the pressure limit.


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Auriaka

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2021, 08:59:32 AM »

Alright, lets look at this and give you SOME information rather then just swatting at you with nothing meaningful that hasn't been said already.

Yes, you went over the pressure limit. I have ran stuff in open loop as well over map threshold... ITS NOT RIGHT.. but it CAN work. You just have to be 100% on your game, which your not. There is some things that you have going on that shows you don't understand what's going on and why...I would go read over the wiki a time or two and commit some stuff to memory.

Looking at your file you have HBN pushed up to 3.0 so it never Cuts in on you.. second is on your log file Boost request goes to map threshold, actual boost goes to, or above map threshold (you can't see so you don't know).. at 5k your Request drops.. At this point boost actual is over boost request, which pisses computer off. Your riding 191 for load for a good while.. Computer doesn't like that either, it can, but it doesn't care for it.
Lambda request is .85 from 3200 to 5k...then you spikes dumb rich at .7 lambda, Then recovers. I would investigate Your KFLBTS, KFLDBTS, and KFFLDBTS. Might want to look at your file at that point..

Perhaps see what your MLMAX value is?

In your XDF MLHFM is NOT defined correctly, at least in relevance to what your posted.
You 4000rpm cut is hitting KFLRDMX. allowable is 610 and your hitting 610 then yours goes to 700ish at 5k. You need to kick up the 50% and 100% throttle airflow values.


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andre-77

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #3 on: April 02, 2021, 02:05:58 PM »

Thank you very much Auriaka! i really appreciate your opinions and advices!

Actually my goal are to running into the MAP limits, i'll try in the future the 5120 for getting more.
I rescaled my KFLDRL values according to the boost values that i found running several logs with KFLDRAPP setted to a differents WGDC, i re-setted my timing values, of KFZW / KFZW2 maps to the stock one and here there's the result.
If i understand rightly there's a quite underboost conditions, so i've to increase the KFLDRL values and the Cylinder Ignition retard runs better.

Quote

Looking at your file you have HBN pushed up to 3.0 so it never Cuts in on you.

i know that isnt the right approach but i'd logged that my PR didn't goes over 2.5, you suggest, in any case, to rescale it?

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In your XDF MLHFM is NOT defined correctly, at least in relevance to what your posted.

Now my engine load are setted to 209 at peak, i think you're right when you suggest me to rescale my MAF. I'm sorry but i'm noob i know...i can rescale it lineary or not?

my actual values are this one:

Code:

i've a Bosch MAF.

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You need to kick up the 50% and 100% throttle airflow values.

ok, i modified the table increasing the values over 4000 rpm and starting from 14%

   800     1240   1520     2000     2520   3000    4000     6000
0   30.00   30.00   30.00   30.00   30.00   30.00   30.00   30.00
4   32.00   33.00   34.00   34.00   34.00   34.00   34.00   34.00
8   48.00   60.00   62.00   62.00   63.00   61.00   62.00   62.00
14   58.00   88.00   103.00   118.00   127.00   135.00   210.00   205.50
20   60.00   98.00   124.00   163.00   190.00   210.00   349.50   373.50
30   61.00   104.00   142.00   192.00   238.00   285.00   565.50   693.00
50   61.00   105.00   148.00   201.00   260.00   335.00   706.50   1185.00
100   61.00   105.00   150.00   283.00   382.00   448.00   915.00   1455.00

are right?

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Perhaps see what your MLMAX value is?

i've to log it? because i can't find that variable Huh


« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 02:30:29 PM by andre-77 »	Logged

nyet

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 04:32:28 PM »

Quote from: andre-77 on April 02, 2021, 02:05:58 PM

Actually my goal are to running into the MAP limits,

For the love of fucking god abandon this.


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nyet

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 04:33:24 PM »

Quote from: nyet on April 03, 2021, 04:32:28 PM

For the love of fucking god abandon this.

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i know that isnt the right approach but i'd logged that my PR didn't goes over 2.5, you suggest, in any case, to rescale it?

Bullshit. How can you know this?


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Auriaka

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 10:27:36 PM »

PR of 2.5 is factoring ambient.... so if your running at map sensor limits... and your base baro is 900mbar... your gonna violate your PR.

You really need to do some more reading and understand what your doing and why..

What IS IT your trying to do, what necessitates ypu intentionally going against the grain?

Nyet, he's learning. It may not be right, he may be doing a lot wrong... but sometimes people have to fail to suceed. Let him learn. You dont have to chime in with something abrasive. Your a great knowledge source but if its not constructive or a nudge in right direction its simply toxic. Worlds fucked up enough, doesnt need help.


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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 11:20:47 PM »

ya i know, but i just get super annoyed when somebody comes here for advice then doesn't just ignore it once, but ignores it 3 times w/o any indication whatsoever that they understood the basis for the advice. Yes, ignore advice all you want, but only after you completely understand why it was given in the first place.

His surety that he isn't overboosting is what put me over the edge, because that is the single most important reason to not req boost near the sensor limit in the first place.

Letting him learn, in this case, likely involves a grenaded motor or blown turbo, something I don't wish on anyone, least of all as a learning method.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 11:24:13 PM by nyet »	Logged

andre-77

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #8 on: April 04, 2021, 11:48:38 PM »

Quote from: Auriaka on April 04, 2021, 10:27:36 PM

Thank you Auriaka!, so what I’ve to do for setting rightly BHN? and why if I read the logs or i plotted it on Xplot I read only 2.5 of max value?

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What IS IT your trying to do, what necessitates ypu intentionally going against the grain?

I yust want to get a right map with 1.5 bar of boost, not more.

Quote from: nyet on April 04, 2021, 11:20:47 PM

Yes Nyet you’re right and I’m sorry for had ignorated it for a long time Undecided

now I understood what was wrong and I’m trying to do something better....


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nyet

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #9 on: April 05, 2021, 09:46:50 AM »

Do not touch any maps until you answer the following question:

What happens to a PID when the setpoint exceeds the sensor maximum?


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andre-77

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #10 on: April 05, 2021, 10:08:44 AM »

Quote from: nyet on April 05, 2021, 09:46:50 AM

Do not touch any maps until you answer the following question:

What happens to a PID when the setpoint exceeds the sensor maximum?

It generate an overboost condition that kick down the WG to 0%.
Right?


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prj

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #11 on: April 06, 2021, 04:40:06 AM »

And there lies your problem.
The right answer is, it will make infinite amount of boost without any limitations because it has no knowledge of the real boost pressure, it will push the N75 to 100%.

And if you have been running it like this, and the rods are stock, they are already bent. Stock rods on these engine bend around 1.6-1.7 bar.
So it's a question of time until you have a hole in the block because one of the bent rods finally snaps.

Good job. Time to open the engine before it's too late and change the connecting rods.


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andre-77

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #12 on: April 06, 2021, 05:05:40 AM »

Quote from: prj on April 06, 2021, 04:40:06 AM

And there lies your problem.
The right answer is, it will make infinite amount of boost without any limitations because it has no knowledge of the real boost pressure, it will push the N75 to 100%.

Thanks for the right answer Wink

Quote

And if you have been running it like this, and the rods are stock, they are already bent. Stock rods on these engine bend around 1.6-1.7 bar.
So it's a question of time until you have a hole in the block because one of the bent rods finally snaps.

Good job. Time to open the engine before it's too late and change the connecting rods.

BUT if read my engine setup befor start writing this you'll see that i've a H-beam set of rods, ACL rod bearings ecc... so, when i tought my engine setup, i designed it for running approx to 1.6 / 1.7 bar....
if you will ask me why i didn't wrote my maps for getting this (5120 hack and other things) the answer are easy...i just wanna learn how to perform rightly a map, next i'll try to get the 5120 hack ecc.
If anyone looked to my LOG_19 posted up will notice that i'd rescaled my WGDC because, I KNOW ok?, i've done a big mistake setting my WGDC up to 55% for getting the past logs.
Why had done this mistake? because i'm noob, because i'm learning and because i'm easly done a mistake reading the boost values after done the KFLDRAPP logs.
At this point, i'm sorry, but it's clear that nobodies, except Auriaka want to help to me for growing up, so "thank" you but for me this topic are closed.


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prj

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	Re: Please help me to understand what are wrong in my setup « Reply #13 on: April 06, 2021, 05:10:02 AM »

You can not request more than 1.4 bar boost without the 5120 mod.

If you need more, you need to do the 5120 mod, after that you can request up to 4 bar.

Quote from: andre-77 on April 06, 2021, 05:05:40 AM

BUT if read my engine setup befor start writing this you'll see that i've a H-beam set of rods, ACL rod bearings ecc...

And how am I supposed to know that?
It's not written here.

EDIT: I see attached in some PDF, yeah I am not going to download that.


« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 05:12:06 AM by prj »	Logged

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