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Author Topic: Civic Type R FK2 (MED17.9.3) wastegate control strategy  (Read 2361 times)
roy_bws
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« on: December 11, 2021, 05:55:04 AM »

Hi!

I'm currently trying to fully understand my car's ecu and i see that it has some differences with other MED17 that i've seen (mainly vag and psa). I attach to the post the damos file that i'm using because it's 99% like my car's ecu, only some little differences.

The basic modules (charge, ignition, fuelling, bts...) are easy to understand because it's the same motronic style. Also on this engine it's important the VVT control(intake and exhaust) and the VTEC control (only exhaust). But i'm having problems to understand how it works the wastegate control. This car has an electronic WG actuator and i cannot understand how the ecu controls it.
On the module PVDREG i think that i've found the PID maps and then on the module BGHATLSTS i see the map KFHATSTS that it looks like a pre-control map but i don't understand the axis data and how it works.

At the moment i don't need to adjust it because the car it's stock and i don't have the intention to make any mods in short term, it's only for knowledge purposes.

If anyone can share any tip or recommend any thing to read it will be very helpful. For some things i use the vag MED17.5 funktionsrahmen but it's not useful for all. Of course i'm not asking for a magic explanation or an easy way, but this forum helped me a lot on the past to understand the motronic structure and maybe anyone has experience on this ecu.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 06:46:27 AM by roy_bws » Logged
prj
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2021, 06:39:37 AM »

What are you using for logging?
Because if you can't see anything then there is little point in knowing.
FR that will be more useful is the 4.0TT MED17.1.1 one, but that also does not have EWG, albeit a more standard Bosch boost control structure.

But at the end of the day, yes KFHATSTS is the pre-control map.
In case of non-standard turbos it's way easier to just replace the axes on that with RPM and target pressure ratio though.
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roy_bws
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2021, 07:05:00 AM »

What are you using for logging?
Because if you can't see anything then there is little point in knowing.
FR that will be more useful is the 4.0TT MED17.1.1 one, but that also does not have EWG, albeit a more standard Bosch boost control structure.

But at the end of the day, yes KFHATSTS is the pre-control map.
In case of non-standard turbos it's way easier to just replace the axes on that with RPM and target pressure ratio though.



Thanks! At the moment i’ve used only simple tools, logworks from innovate and the sportdevices sw from a friend’s dyno. But at this point i’m far from doing any trials on this, first i want to have a strong knowledge. In some time i will try vehical, looks very advanced.

Can you explain more about axis replacement? Did you mean to use the “1, 2, 3...” function of winols and write it manually?


Edit: now taking another look at the BGHATLSTS i see the following map:

KFHATSAPP - Pre control map desired wastegate position for calibration mode.
This control map it looks much better with nmot and boost pressure on axis.

Then also at the begining of the module there’s this codeword:
CWBGHTAPP - Codeword calibration modes

Maybe this map can be enabled and change the control strategy?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 07:53:00 AM by roy_bws » Logged
prj
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2021, 04:24:07 PM »

Changing the axis is done by patching the firmware obviously.
Also setting the codeword to enable the application map most likely will also turn off the PID. I have not checked whether that is the case or not, would need to look in code what it does exactly.
But no PID and EWG is a really bad idea.

Either way for mild changes none of this is important, they control boost pretty well...
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roy_bws
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2021, 05:16:37 AM »

Changing the axis is done by patching the firmware obviously.
Also setting the codeword to enable the application map most likely will also turn off the PID. I have not checked whether that is the case or not, would need to look in code what it does exactly.
But no PID and EWG is a really bad idea.

Either way for mild changes none of this is important, they control boost pretty well...


 Then for doing this it’s needed a strong knowledge of assembly and reversing. Totally out of my possibilities at the moment. Sometimes i’m curious about this world but one thing it’s learning how to calibrate having a strong knowledge about engine internals (my case) and other thing it’s learn how to program where i’m totally lost.

Yes, med17 ecu’s manage boost well but sometimes with mods like de-cat downpipes or also bigger turbos it’s needed to adjust it...
It has to be any way to do it but not easy.

Thanks for your tips!
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prj
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2021, 07:39:30 AM »

As long as it's on the stock turbo you can log the axis on the existing map and do adjustments if there is any over- or undershoot.
That said, you're severely overestimating the effect of a decat downpipe on this, it won't make much difference, certainly not enough to need to adjust anything BC related.
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roy_bws
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2021, 08:14:15 AM »

As long as it's on the stock turbo you can log the axis on the existing map and do adjustments if there is any over- or undershoot.
That said, you're severely overestimating the effect of a decat downpipe on this, it won't make much difference, certainly not enough to need to adjust anything BC related.

I said the decat effects because on other old diesel systems where i’m much more confident working it’s a thing that i’ve adjusted for eliminate some boost peaks. But logging the axis it’s a good way and maybe can work with upgraded turbos too.

But has or not any effect, my intention it’s to understand how it works and i will need to do more research.
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