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Author Topic: SIMOS18 wastegate control strategy  (Read 5776 times)
Sagishm
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« on: December 19, 2021, 05:36:42 AM »

Hi All,
I tried to tune SIMOS18 ECU with upgrade turbo to is20, no matter what i did the boost is not liner, i tried to play with the wastegate maps but i can't to understand the axis.
Some can give more information about an axis in wastegate maps? also, i read about the option to change the axis to boost / rpm.

Thanks
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d3irb
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2021, 09:11:02 AM »

Read the FR. The two flow factors are built using the turbine model with turbine RPM as the link from compressor to turbine, basically physically modeling the turbo. You need RAM logger like VehiCAL to log the two flow factors. My suggestion is to use a RAM logger and histogram to tune the feedforward table, or just replace the axes with a simple patch.

If you are upgrading is12 to is20 you can also copy a lot of the model tables from an is20 car.
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Sagishm
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2021, 10:13:20 AM »

hi, i tried to find it in FR but it's too far doc, i will try more if you have a reference for a page that will help a lot.
also, i copy the wastegate maps from mk7 gti and still have the issue, about VehiCAL i thought about that but looks like needs a boot with autotuner.
the best idea is to replace the axes with a simple patch but i don't have the skills for that, if you can give me someone who can do that it will be great.

thanks
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2021, 11:05:10 AM »

Patch can be done automatically at https://tools.vehical.net as well, but it still requires boot mode if AT is all you have.
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d3irb
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2021, 01:33:34 PM »

If you are willing to maybe adopt a new workflow you can now use my open source tools also and ditch AT:

https://github.com/bri3d/VW_Flash/blob/master/docs/windows.md

These tools plus VehiCAL and an editor represent a pretty good end to end tuning solution without the locked down garbage commercial vendors seem to love on Simos18.
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Sagishm
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2021, 10:55:51 PM »

I following on your project from the day one, looks like you do great job.
Basically what i need to do to make VehiCAL works with your project?
I saw in their docs instructions for cmd/bflash, but i cant understand how to do it with yours project.

Thanks
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aaronc7
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2021, 12:38:51 PM »

- Purchase Tactrix openport 2.0
- Purchase vehical-- the program will take your bin file and patch it
- Use Vehical / openport to datalog
- Use VW_Flash / openport to flash

You'll likely want to start over with VW_Flash to unlock the ecu etc.  He recently updated and released a GUI/EXE version with lots of pictures/screenshots to walk thru the entire process of initial flashing on github.  Docs -> windows I believe.

Prj also has wastegate patch now which would solve your logging issue...but I would still get Vehical IMO, good logging is critical.  Then from there you can decide whether to tune OEM logic or use his wastegate patch which replaces the wastegate feedfwd axis with put_sp and engine rpm
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Sagishm
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2021, 09:15:27 AM »

If you are willing to maybe adopt a new workflow you can now use my open source tools also and ditch AT:

https://github.com/bri3d/VW_Flash/blob/master/docs/windows.md

These tools plus VehiCAL and an editor represent a pretty good end to end tuning solution without the locked down garbage commercial vendors seem to love on Simos18.

So basically i can convert frf to full bin then use VehiCAL tool to make boost patch on the file then i need to using "Full Flash unlocked(frf/bin)" with your tool?
what about checksum?
and if i did unlock with AT i still need to unlock with your project?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 09:18:20 AM by Sagishm » Logged
d3irb
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2021, 09:33:20 AM »

So basically i can convert frf to full bin then use VehiCAL tool to make boost patch on the file then i need to using "Full Flash unlocked(frf/bin)" with your tool?
what about checksum?
and if i did unlock with AT i still need to unlock with your project?

First part, yes. The full BINs output by my FRF to BIN process and flashed using "Full Flash Unlocked" are in a format vehical understands (I guess you could call it "standard" if such a thing were to exist).

As for checksums: the open source tool automatically corrects all checksums, all the time - which is debatable on technical merit but you don't have to worry about them!

And as for AT compatibility: Not sure. Everyone unlocks differently, the "way in" is just arbitrary code execution so to go from there to "flash whatever you want," there are many, many mechanisms. If AT just turns RSA off (for example using the production/sample mode check function like I do), then you're good to go. If it does something else requiring custom flashing logic, it won't work. I don't own any commercial tools so I can only know what other people tell me in terms of what's compatible and what's not.
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Sagishm
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 03:21:55 AM »

Im after boost patch but im still get wastegate dc very weird, no matter what i did wastegate dc was horrible, I tried to read simoswiki, and other information in network and i didnt found a solution, what i missing? Someone can help? What i missing?
Boost target is high but boost not stable even it not closed to the request.
This logs: https://www.autotuner-tool.com/en/log/3eeb88a4b2ce108a7bca7620ee876cda7e57d5a15f74920449654b5b07d7f30a

Thanks
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Sagishm
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2022, 09:07:05 AM »

ok so after a lot of reading, I understand the ip_fac_bpa is just pre-control, it can help to improve boost but this is not open close loop, so i think my main problem is the torque model and how boost controller works on that ecu, so i think the issue is with ip_tqi_ref_n_m_air_vvl_cam_h and ip_maf_stk_sp_vvl_cam_h, i still don't activate RAM logger but from VCDS it looks like "Driver torque request" is always very high from engine torque even boost is high and I think that influence the something in the logics.

Someone can help with some information about "boost / torque model"? or a reference to the page in FR will help too.

Thanks
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EanDem
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2022, 09:55:11 AM »

ok so after a lot of reading, I understand the ip_fac_bpa is just pre-control, it can help to improve boost but this is not open close loop, so i think my main problem is the torque model and how boost controller works on that ecu, so i think the issue is with ip_tqi_ref_n_m_air_vvl_cam_h and ip_maf_stk_sp_vvl_cam_h, i still don't activate RAM logger but from VCDS it looks like "Driver torque request" is always very high from engine torque even boost is high and I think that influence the something in the logics.

Someone can help with some information about "boost / torque model"? or a reference to the page in FR will help too.

Thanks

Wormer but still far - intake air/exaust gas flows plays here for controls - if to simplify(ASW is quite complex here).  Keep learning - and do not forget to share solution working.

Bucker positive Karma points in advance.
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Sagishm
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2022, 10:22:13 AM »

Wormer but still far - intake air/exaust gas flows plays here for controls - if to simplify(ASW is quite complex here).  Keep learning - and do not forget to share solution working.

Bucker positive Karma points in advance.
I don’t think so, i did the boost patch from prj, so no intake air/exhaust gas flows.
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rzxf
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2024, 09:11:41 AM »

I don’t think so, i did the boost patch from prj, so no intake air/exhaust gas flows.


Hello mate

Any update for this?

I have here 2 cars woth "same problem", after 5th gear, boost go to Space, and increase 300--600grams...

Need some help please

Thanks
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EanDem
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2024, 12:05:05 PM »

The whole magic is behind combustion chamber pressure and gas flows - patch not patch it does not matter if there no horsepower spinning turbo. Where common failures? improper MPI usage during spool, vvti/vvl not optimized, wrong ignition strategy for spool phase.
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