K-Line and Can -Bus

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IWay

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	K-Line and Can -Bus « on: March 28, 2022, 04:17:45 AM »

Hello,

The car is a 2002, Audi TT, 225, Me7.5, BAM UK spec.

I've built a Water - Methanol controller with change lights that also records the maximum values for Speed, W-M delivery, RPM, IAT & Boost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W4zOCoSWGc

Now I need to get the data from the car to the controller.

After some trial & error and some reading, I have found that the car has both K-Line & Can – Bus, the Can – Bus is not accessible via the ODB2 port Sad

.

I've managed to tap the Can - Bus from the back of the radio and found an example of how to get the K-Line data from the ODB2 port.

https://github.com/ibanezgomez/FISBlocks#material-needed-to-build-the-fisblocks

So I'm at the point where I need some help on the following questions (I've spent a couple of days trawling the internet without any luck on these already);

K - Line
- Is the K-Line data reading fast enough for the change lights and controlling the delivery of the WM whilst sending the speed, IAT & Boost data as well? (I think it should be as the Me7Logger works pretty well, but that uses a different mechanism to collect the data to VCDS - https://github.com/nyetwurk/ME7L/blob/master/doc/README.txt).

Can - Bus
- Can I just keep with tapping the back of the radio or is this Can data filtered and I need to tap at the ECU?
- Are the Can - Bus values I want broadcast & if not how do I ask for them?
- Deciphering the Can data, I've found the speed ID & how to decipher the speed value but not has any luck with the other values required. Is there a list anywhere?

Preferably I would like to use the Can - Bus as then I can still use Me7Logger, but if I can't I can live with it.

Any pointers, experience or help would be most appreciated.

Thanks


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fknbrkn

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #1 on: March 28, 2022, 05:20:10 AM »

Use motor canbus for that
Its connected to the dashboard

Runs at 1 mbps
FR module CAN describes all messages
Its simply broadcasting network. No need for sending any handshake or request to get the data


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IWay

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #2 on: March 28, 2022, 05:49:39 AM »

Cheers,

You'll have to help me out with "FR module"?

Also as the car was on the cusp of the Can - Bus regulations, I don't think the ID's & data is as per the regulation standards, (happy to be corrected though).

Just looked up the pin outs for the cluster & found 3 CAN pins for the power train,

- CAN high, power train (+)
- CAN high, power train (-)
- CAN high, power train (screening)

The CAN high is high speed, the (+) & (-) are CAN high & low, do you know what the (screening) is?

Also found 0x351 has the speed and 0x353 has the RPM, just got to find the IAT & Boost?

This post suggests that for the Me7.5 the Boost is not available on the Can - Bus, so probably not the IAT either, is this correct?

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9956.0title=

The CAN - BUS tap I recorded from the back of the Radio didn't have ID 0x555 which I believe has the Boost values in it, could that be because it's Convenience BUS?

Thanks


« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 08:00:11 AM by IWay »	Logged

macxxx

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #3 on: March 28, 2022, 12:14:05 PM »

behind the radio is CAN Infotainment


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fknbrkn

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #4 on: March 28, 2022, 01:56:27 PM »

FR is the funktionzrahmen available at the docs section (hope youll able to find this)
I dont remember any screening wire there

Boost and iat are not available via canbus (could be implemented via custom code anyway)


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IWay

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #5 on: March 29, 2022, 07:47:25 AM »

Quote from: fukenbroken on March 28, 2022, 01:56:27 PM

Boost and iat are not available via canbus (could be implemented via custom code anyway)

Cheers,

Knowing that has saved me a lot of time chasing my tail.

I'm nearly there with the Speed & RPM from the Canbus (I can get the data just need to convert it to decimal in the coding), I'm going to give the K-Line a go as I've got all the kit and see if it's quick enough, if not I'll tap the MAP & IAT.

I think it would be a big can of worms trying to enable the Boost & IAT via recoding the ECU.

Thanks for your help:)

PS

The FR looks heavy going.


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fknbrkn

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #6 on: March 29, 2022, 09:03:54 AM »

Lot of time for what? You have description of all messages in FR and possibility to dump canbus data. Its a 5 min deal
Kline is a waste if time in that case

There are rl, wped etc iirc. Use them instead of boost


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macxxx

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #7 on: March 29, 2022, 10:10:58 AM »

this may help - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/VW-CAN


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BlackT

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #8 on: March 29, 2022, 10:58:57 AM »

This is easy to read Wink


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macxxx

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #9 on: March 29, 2022, 11:37:09 AM »

Do you have some similar PDF for newer cars??


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BlackT

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #10 on: March 29, 2022, 01:22:09 PM »

Unfortunately no Sad

, there si little more in MED9.1 FR about seite 4049
I didt find anything similar in MED17, simos or EDC FR
If I come across it I will post here
Also there was one more document here on forum about CAN-BUS but I can't remeber where


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IWay

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #11 on: March 30, 2022, 04:45:42 AM »

Everyone thanks for the info.

Quote from: fukenbroken on March 29, 2022, 09:03:54 AM

OK,

I see where you're coming from, use the relative air fill to determine the the actual boost.

Here's where I'm at;

I have the Can Data from the back of the radio (not sure if the tap location makes any difference), edited extract below with all the identifiers I get & some information I've gathered from trawling the internet.

Standard ID:   0x261   DLC:   8   Data:   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20      0x261   DIS_TEXT_line1
Standard ID:   0x263   DLC:   8   Data:   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20   0x20      0x263   DIS_TEXT_line2
Standard ID:   0x271   DLC:   1   Data:   0x03    0x271   Ignition
Standard ID:   0x351   DLC:   8   Data:   0x08   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x72   0x72   0x00      0x351   Speed, Reverse - Forward
Standard ID:   0x353   DLC:   6   Data:   0x00   0xBE   0x0E   0x7A   0x00   0x00    0x353   RPM, Water Temp
Standard ID:   0x428   DLC:   6   Data:   0x19   0x01   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00            0x428
Standard ID:   0x439   DLC:   6   Data:   0x08   0x01   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00    0x439   Radio
Standard ID:   0x621   DLC:   3   Data:   0x00   0x10   0x4F    0x621
Standard ID:   0x623   DLC:   8   Data:   0x00   0x21   0x46   0x28   0x02   0x06   0x20   0x04      0x623   Time
Standard ID:   0x627   DLC:   8   Data:   0x00   0x39   0x39   0x39   0x39   0x08   0x08   0x08      0x627
Standard ID:   0x630   DLC:   8   Data:   0x01   0xFF   0x03   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00      0x630
Standard ID:   0x635   DLC:   3   Data:   0x1A   0x00   0x0F 0x635   Brightness knob
Standard ID:   0x653   DLC:   3   Data:   0x04   0x02   0x04    0x653   Language/Area
Standard ID:   0x660   DLC:   8   Data:   0x01   0x0C   0x4A   0x09   0xC2   0x29   0x18   0xDA   0x660
Standard ID:   0x661   DLC:   8   Data:   0x89   0x01   0x12   0xA0   0x00   0x00   0x00   0x00      0x661   Audio Source, Radio On - Off
Standard ID:   0x663   DLC:   8   Data:   0x01   0x01   0x12   0x00   0xA0   0x00   0x00   0x00      0x663

I have both the FRE07E0 RTP.PDF and the can_v423.pdf docs,

None of the identifiers in the can_v423.pdf match my identifiers.

In the FRE07E0 RTP.PDF is for the ME7.3 I found a section called CAN signal list, but it doesn't have the identifiers or conversion formulas listed, (Am I missing something obvious?).

How do I get hold of the information to identify the correct CAN data and convert it?

It seems tantalisingly close just missing the key piece of information. I thought the hard bit would be getting the Can data from the car.

PS
I'll still have to tap the sensor for the IAT.

Thanks


« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 04:49:37 AM by IWay »	Logged

fknbrkn

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #12 on: March 30, 2022, 05:51:21 AM »

Again its not the motor canbus.
Conversion formulas could be found in FR 7.1 ( CAN module )

280 288 38A and so on


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prj

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #13 on: March 30, 2022, 06:27:27 AM »

Back of the radio is comfort CAN. Connect to the correct CAN - PTCAN.


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IWay

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	Re: K-Line and Can -Bus « Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 02:56:23 AM »

AHH, I get it now,

The Can gateway filters the messages (I did ask in my first post - Can I just keep with tapping the back of the radio or is this Can data filtered and I need to tap at the ECU?).

I’ve looked through the doc “Audi_R4-5V_T_132kW_ME7.pdf”

Dargestellter Umfang:
Ausgewahlte Blocke:       ABK, APP, FB, FDEF
System:           SG ME7.5
Projekt:           Audi R4-5V T Quereinbau 132kW ME7.1
Projektnummer:       5/4019.00;35
Bearbeiter:          Alexander Frick
Abteilung:          K3/EAF4
Telefon:           33871
Ausgabedatum:       03.01.01

Firstly is this the same information as for a ME7.5 BAM 165 kW, if not where can I find the correct document?

As you have a lot more experience than I on this and you are sure that the IAT & Boost are not available on a 2002, Audi TT, 225, Me7.5, BAM UK spec. I suspect that the doc I’m looking at is the wrong doc?

Assuming this doc has the information applying to my car, I have found that IAT might be sent over the CAN (page 1642), see IAT pic. (oder Ansauglufttemp = or intake air temp)

And Boost is sent over the can (page 1648), see Boost pic.

I couldn't find rl.

So the question is can I use this doc or is there a different doc to use for my car?

Also going back to the K-Line, VisualMeLogger refreshes about 20 times a second whilst logging 10's of readings. Everyone's saying it slow but that speed would be fast enough for what I need, Am I missing something?

Thanks for your patience.


« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 03:38:24 AM by IWay »	Logged

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