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Author Topic: I'm noob, i get stuck and i need help :)  (Read 4473 times)
raresz
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« on: April 09, 2023, 08:24:14 AM »

Hello,

I just started my adventure with chiptuning. I spent few days on searching map pack for my ECU and finally i found it. Next stage - i did my first attempt to turn off SAI, for now only in a program - waiting for stuff to deinstall SAI mechnically, fix some things and there i will try to make it.

But let's say until this moment everything is quite ok for me. Meanwhile i figured out i can learn basics if i would want to make stage 1 there. So i started reading about ME7.5 how it works etc, i have read S4 wiki, and some important posts here but still i can't make this puzzle to be assembled.

My car is A4 B5, 1.8t with AWT ecu with (probably - 99%) wideband lambda.

So i have found that maps are important on beginning are: LAMFA, KFMIRL, KFMIOP, KFLBTS, LDRXN (and maybe some else). But in this moment i got stuck - problem is complexity of that motronic. I have imagined it works like that: i put gas pedal and according to RPM, ecu says how much mg of fuel needs to be increased and also you take care of it to increase also boost that it still has balance in a mixture.

But reality is that me7.5 uses something like "load" what all of you probably already know. And i can't figure out the order of steps that i have to follow while modifying maps.

1. Is there any order of maps that has to be modified or the order doesnt matter?

2. Or it is something like that: i have to increase load by KFMIRL/KFMIOP, and in example then i check it how AFR does behave and then i correct the LAMFA map until the car has good mixture settings through whole range of RPM?

3. Question about KFMIRL/KFMIOP - is it like that, i need to precalculate how much boost i want at final place and then use that mathematic equation (something like *10 + 300) and then i have some values which i use in KFMIRL/KFMIOP?

Does it work that way? : first i specify how much load i want then ECU calculates it to turbo boost needed(or called wanted when thinking about requested load) AND THEN ecu adjusts fuel? That is big understanding problem for me because everywhere is said "start with fueling first" which is for me really hard to understand because i thought petrol engine first measure air and then dose fuel for that measured air.

4. Really problem is for me that there is no description like "Tuning for dummies" anywhere. I mean that there is lots of info - but they are useful for somebody who already know what to search for. I'm still so beginner that i don't know what to search for and this what i know - this things still i don't completely understand.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 09:31:18 AM by raresz » Logged
grayjay
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2023, 02:26:57 PM »

It would probably be helpful for you to carefully read through the community 1.8T stage1 thread; 
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6955.0title=

Follow which maps are being changed and how those changes are being made in order to implement a similar tune strategy to your specific .bin file.
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raresz
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2023, 09:03:21 PM »

Yes, i will try to get through it. I actually thought to do this but the project is done in TunerPro(XDF) and i started learning in winOLS so i didn't want to mix in my head.

I tried again yesterday, but something doesn't work at all there. I will try to get it working.
Some constants it shows value 250(in example engine speed limit) and normal maps it shows 0(KFMIRL set to 0 as constant). I mean after loading .bin downloaded from forum and selecting .xdf file from same place. I have no idea what is wrong.

Thanks for reply!

EDIT:

Problem with TunerPRO solved. Didn't know there is any difference between TunerPro and TunerPro RT. Deinstall and install normal TunerPro solved my problem.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 09:24:21 PM by raresz » Logged
JeanAwt
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2023, 11:50:51 PM »

do not forget whether it is on tuner or ols after each modification make the sum of checks before flashing. or install plugins for checksums
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raresz
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2023, 01:26:47 AM »

Hi, yes i know about checksums but it's still far away that moment when i will be flashing.

I'm reading that community stg1 topic but as fars as i see, it's conversation between people who knows what and where. There isn't any step by step guide that i could follow logical steps in that tuning to understand where it all came from? I have compared both bins in TunerPro but big part of those maps are modified that way i can't understand which logic steps this is result from. I use difference view expressed in percents and sometimes whole map is changed that it looks like completely random modification for me(expected form of some rows and cols: +10%, +20% etc. And it looks like almost each of that 100 places has it own modification value)
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raresz
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2023, 04:05:42 AM »

Can somebody at least correct me in this place? I ask because, if i think correct it will be much easier to go further step for me from this point.

So, first we have LAMFA - and here we say to ECU in which conditions we want to go open loop(yes?). So we set lambda smaller than 1 in places where we want our modification to start working. All [RPMs vs Load] positions where lambda=1 will be working as usual(as stock setting). So other words, we can feel results of our tuning in every conditions which we changed to number smaller than 1?

Ok next. If i was correct in previous section, we have set conditions where our "tuning" will work. So do i understand it right?:
- Me7.5 is load based system that means, we actually specify the Load instead of boost?
- If we specify load(do i understand good i should touch map called LDRXN?), our ECU will calculate it to boost values? Or other way - ECU calculates load to MAF values and later it translates it to boost?
- So if we let's say specified Boost(via Load), we say to ECU how much air we want in specified conditions(RPMs?) and because this air goes through MAF sensor, if ECU(via MAF) knows boost value and indirectly he knows also how much air mass it should be - then it knows how to adjust fuel?

So in general:
- For stage1 for stock injectors and whole hardware - i don't touch anything related to fuel at all?
- We set the conditions where we want our "tuning" to take place via LAMFA?
- We set where and how much(in certain place) of Load we want? And this will become our boost?

And later, when we set how much "power" we want to generate, we make logs, and when needed we correct LAMFA(?) and timing maps if knocks occur?

I really apologize for my maybe dumb questions, but i really cannot jump over that. If i will understand this part it will be much easier for me to go deeper.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2023, 04:21:59 AM by raresz » Logged
JeanAwt
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2023, 04:43:31 AM »

Hello, there are several ways to do it, I also don't understand everything. you can enrich with LAMFA...but not very 'smooth' by using ZKLAMFAW but delays the LAMFA effects. by bts ..KFLBTS based on the EGT .KFLF for partial load ... I imagine he still has another solution. FKKVS, KFKHFM...I don't know much more sorry. and I stopped asking here since I got my throat cut several times with this kind of questions. good luck
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JeanAwt
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2023, 04:49:51 AM »

there are a lot of safety devices, some maps enrich on knock, others on EGTs... for the protection of components
« Last Edit: April 10, 2023, 04:55:35 AM by JeanAwt » Logged

A4 B5 avant 1.8T 2000 NO QUATTRO
_nameless
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2023, 05:59:54 AM »

Can somebody at least correct me in this place? I ask because, if i think correct it will be much easier to go further step for me from this point.

So, first we have LAMFA - and here we say to ECU in which conditions we want to go open loop(yes?). So we set lambda smaller than 1 in places where we want our modification to start working. All [RPMs vs Load] positions where lambda=1 will be working as usual(as stock setting). So other words, we can feel results of our tuning in every conditions which we changed to number smaller than 1?

Ok next. If i was correct in previous section, we have set conditions where our "tuning" will work. So do i understand it right?:
- Me7.5 is load based system that means, we actually specify the Load instead of boost?
- If we specify load(do i understand good i should touch map called LDRXN?), our ECU will calculate it to boost values? Or other way - ECU calculates load to MAF values and later it translates it to boost?
- So if we let's say specified Boost(via Load), we say to ECU how much air we want in specified conditions(RPMs?) and because this air goes through MAF sensor, if ECU(via MAF) knows boost value and indirectly he knows also how much air mass it should be - then it knows how to adjust fuel?

So in general:
- For stage1 for stock injectors and whole hardware - i don't touch anything related to fuel at all?
- We set the conditions where we want our "tuning" to take place via LAMFA?
- We set where and how much(in certain place) of Load we want? And this will become our boost?

And later, when we set how much "power" we want to generate, we make logs, and when needed we correct LAMFA(?) and timing maps if knocks occur?

I really apologize for my maybe dumb questions, but i really cannot jump over that. If i will understand this part it will be much easier for me to go deeper.
Read the wiki. That's your "...for dummies" start.
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raresz
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2023, 06:16:52 AM »

I will do. Just it is written in quite complicated langauge for a beginner and looks like alien language for me. Lot of blocks of letters. If this forum is to help people, and this exact zone is called Noob Zone, why not to answer my previous question to make everything easier to understand for those ones which needs extra eplaination and clarification? I understand your point, i just hope you will understand mine.
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_nameless
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2023, 06:26:05 AM »

I will do. Just it is written in quite complicated langauge for a beginner and looks like alien language for me. Lot of blocks of letters. If this forum is to help people, and this exact zone is called Noob Zone, why not to answer my previous question to make everything easier to understand for those ones which needs extra eplaination and clarification? I understand your point, i just hope you will understand mine.
Don't care really. Fact Is noobs come and go every day of the week, and no one is going to go further out of their way to help someone who can't help them self. If you don't know what an acronym is then you might wanna go back to 8th grade English and take a refresher.
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raresz
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2023, 07:34:44 AM »

Yeah nobody denies you to don't care.
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JeanAwt
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2023, 07:51:37 AM »

I think it all depends on how far you want to go and why. if it's to make it his job, a hobby for a single car ... I understand better over time the old ones on the forum because to understand it takes a lot of time and research. but good after 8 months I reassure you I always ask stupid questions. but I already take more time before posting them .... especially here
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R32Dude
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2023, 08:11:17 AM »

I will do. Just it is written in quite complicated langauge for a beginner and looks like alien language for me. Lot of blocks of letters. If this forum is to help people, and this exact zone is called Noob Zone, why not to answer my previous question to make everything easier to understand for those ones which needs extra eplaination and clarification? I understand your point, i just hope you will understand mine.

If you stick around a few months and keep reading it will start making sense. Its a steep learning curve , but the info is here, tons of it.  Then you can make a version of 1.8 tuning guide for idiots to share
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JeanAwt
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2023, 08:15:57 AM »

I assure you, I had the same questions/answers. noob versus professionals. but the noob section here already has a certain level. It's a great forum where you can learn a lot. but indeed for real beginners like me it can quickly be hell. must not let go. you ask yourself good questions. you will find your answers....
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