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Bische
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« on: July 14, 2012, 03:50:42 PM »
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Im experiencing a wierd lean condition at WOT, after around 4500rpm the MAF reading goes down and the actual AFR leans out. Here is a log, WOT in 3rd starts at row 480: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlddzLucZT07dEU3UmYta0VKbms5TWl6b3YydFlWcUE2002 Audi A4 1.8t, returnless: HTA2868r Eliminator, ported Ported BEX manifold Ringer Racing 1000cc EV14 Single tips S8 4.2l 3.5" MAF Maestro 7 BSR 1.5bar Boost guage D1 Spec catch can, -10an lines Black anodized Evolution Racewerks Competition FMIC, custom piping 2.25"/2.5" Custom 3" downpipe with 100cel race catalyst Ferrita stainless resonated /w 3.5" tips Aluminum piston type DV ECS snub mount Stern soft motor mounts Stern transmission mount v2 Apikol soft rear diff mount, billet version Clutchmasters FX400 6-puck Clutchmasters 240mm 19lb steel flywheel I have pressure tested the system at ~1bar, I have tried plugging all ports on the TIP(evap, ccv and plugged DV) as my first thought was air leak post-MAF pre-turbo since the boost doesnt drop, none of that helped. I had this exact symptom when I was still on stock turbo and stock MAF, rest of the setup was the same except for turbo/MAF. I was pretty sure it was my stock TIP collapsing and I never attemped to fix it since I was going to swap in my bigger turbo and MAF. I have not verified fuel pressure yet, but to my eyes it does not look like im running out of fuel, though im not ruling it out. The fuel pump/filter is stock and was changed less than 2 years ago. I have a feeling this could be software related, but im stuck, I cant figure out were to look. |
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 03:54:13 PM by Bische »
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Bische
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 11:18:58 AM »
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I was out to take a new log today, to trace back in the diagrams. I logged uhfm_w, mlhfmm_w and mshfm_w. Here is a graph of those + boost and fuel against RPM:  The MAF actually reads the air entering(mlhfmm_w is following uhfm_w), as seen here in the graph, but something is interfering. The only thing that according to the FR should be modifying mlhfmm_w is KFKHFM, since sy_turbo=1 the fpuk is = 1, and my KFKHFM is all set to 1's.  Im stuck here, I have looked at MLMAX but from what I understand it is not limiting/interfering with mshfm_w. I have also looked up KFMLDMX, and that map is only for diagnosis, setting a MAF reading too high flag. Im not 100% about MLMAX/KFMLDMX, please if someone knows more, do give me a hint  Here is the log I made the graph from: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlddzLucZT07dDgySXB4Z09WQVc4MzRiYWZ0SU5YeWc |
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 02:09:50 PM by Bische »
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nyet
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 11:26:23 AM »
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I doubt it is the tune. If it is, you'd see it in injector duty cycle
You're running out of fuel (bad injectors, failing pump, etc)
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Bische
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 12:14:10 PM »
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I doubt it is the tune. If it is, you'd see it in injector duty cycle
How would I see it the injector DC? My understanding is that rk is calculated from load, and rl is calculated from airflow and RPM? Since mshfm_w is dropping, so is the load and thus the rk goes stupid lean since there is still actual airflow(mlhfmm_w). You're running out of fuel (bad injectors, failing pump, etc)
Ok, lets assume my pump is bad and pressure drops. Why does the mshfm_w start to drop? It is pretty obvious(at least to my eyes) in my logs, that the AFR goes lean because the airflow reading goes down. |
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professor
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 12:15:19 PM »
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If possbile measure block 2 for injectors duty cycle.
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Seat Ibiza MK4 Cupra 1.8t 20V, stg3.
"Those 1.8T 20V machines are really tough" ©
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Bische
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 01:57:02 PM »
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If possbile measure block 2 for injectors duty cycle.
Here is injector DC against AFR's:  The peak before the dive is 38% DC. EDIT: Updated the first graph with Injector DC also. |
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 02:10:34 PM by Bische »
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 02:29:55 PM »
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Wow. You're right. That is extremely odd. I don't see your MAF dropping low enough to cause that kind of injector cut.. Some thing else is going on. I've never seen that much fuel cut.
Don't forget, though, your load is supposed to taper down with rpm after peak boost (although MAF should not)
Also, please post the original CSV so I can run it through ECUxPlot...
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Bische
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 02:51:28 PM »
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Wow. You're right. That is extremely odd. I don't see your MAF dropping low enough to cause that kind of injector cut.. Some thing else is going on. I've never seen that much fuel cut.
Don't forget, though, your load is supposed to taper down with rpm after peak boost (although MAF should not)
Also, please post the original CSV so I can run it through ECUxPlot...
Yes I find it really odd too, I cant get my head around it. There is something that holds it back, between mshfm_w and mlhfmm_w. One thing I noticed now is that my actual load is 10-15% over requested when this happens, maybe all this is an action to bring actual load down? I have attached the log I made the graphs from, let me know if there is anything else you want to see. |
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nyet
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 03:08:08 PM »
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your MAF is taking huge dive, which is causing you to go lean two ways
1) your load drops off a cliff, sending your req lamba into a low load region (lean)
2) injector drops because the MAF is dropping.
If i had to guess, i'd say its a DV problem.
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Bische
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 02:29:28 AM »
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your MAF is taking huge dive, which is causing you to go lean two ways
1) your load drops off a cliff, sending your req lamba into a low load region (lean)
2) injector drops because the MAF is dropping.
If i had to guess, i'd say its a DV problem.
Yup, exactly my thoughts aswell I have tried running with the DV jammed shut without any luck, I guess I can try to completely remove the DV and se if it makes any difference. However, I think I have found the root cause to this. I found this alternative GGHFM diagram:  I will get a new log tonight to verify this. |
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Bische
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 06:57:18 AM »
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DV is not leaking, pressure tested the system at 1.5bar, no leaks at all. Did some more logging, and have found the cause:  This is my current KFKHFM:  I cant understand what is wrong? |
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 01:37:20 PM by Bische »
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nyet
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 08:21:32 AM »
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[edit]
yes that is very very strange :/ Either the FR is wrong, and is missing another correction factor, or you aren't logging what you think you are :/
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 08:26:44 AM by nyet »
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 08:28:42 AM »
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I think you'll need somebody here to disassemble your bin to find out what else can affect fkfhm
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Bische
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 09:38:16 AM »
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I think you'll need somebody here to disassemble your bin to find out what else can affect fkfhm
Yes, I will go through the FR obe more time, if I cant find anything thats my only hope. Do anyone happen to have any names of people I could contact for disassembly? Maybe I need to learn to disassemble myself. |
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Bische
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 01:44:40 PM »
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I have noticed that this correction seems to happen when actual boost > requested boost, if anyone want to take a look I have attached two logs.
Seems strange if the ECU wants to correct boost overshoot with scaling the MAF reading down, no?
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