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Author Topic: 17608/P1200 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249): Mechanical Malfunction  (Read 26075 times)
professor
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Hello

I am facing this problem code when esp/tcs is on and / or when i drive bit fast with wot and middle right foot presses through corners with esp/tcs off.
The problem is visible cause lambda turns too rich, below 10, and throttle response isnt fast. STFT's are climbing from 0.2 to 5 maybe more if i wont delete this error.
N249 valve is wired with 330Ohm / 10w resistor, hoses are removed from N249 valve so i am guessing its some SW wrong torque map's adjustment. LDRXN's maps are calibrated to 215 and car can run up to 30psi from BC.

What can i do to prevent this check and error?
Help pls!  Grin


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marcello7x
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im curious about this as well, i have yet to remove my n249 valve which one of the next things on my list of things too do.
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SVSPORT
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Hello

I am facing this problem code when esp/tcs is on and / or when i drive bit fast with wot and middle right foot presses through corners with esp/tcs off.
The problem is visible cause lambda turns too rich, below 10, and throttle response isnt fast. STFT's are climbing from 0.2 to 5 maybe more if i wont delete this error.
N249 valve is wired with 330Ohm / 10w resistor, hoses are removed from N249 valve so i am guessing its some SW wrong torque map's adjustment. LDRXN's maps are calibrated to 215 and car can run up to 30psi from BC.

What can i do to prevent this check and error?
Help pls!  Grin



You can remove it in the file.Do you know the address?
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professor
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What codeword triggers it to remove it? Somewhere i read its the CLALDUV ?

Address if known SVSPORT would be great, if not the codeword would be also great in oder to find it and post the address and results here!
I guess N249 fehler codeword == 0 disables it or else should look into documentation.
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prj
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Just curious.
Why are you people removing these?
I see a lot of references to "someone said it might be a good idea" kind of things, but no hard data.

Electronic dump valve control is a given in more modern vehicles, it is much better at protecting the turbos.
Plus, it can be fully tuned, and it is pretty much only engaged when the ECU detects that you will be crossing the surge line of the compressor map (requires negative pedal gradient and certain predicted pressure drop).

After reading the section of the FR dealing with this I decided it was a bad idea to remove it.
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professor
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Just curious.
Why are you people removing these?
I see a lot of references to "someone said it might be a good idea" kind of things, but no hard data.

Electronic dump valve control is a given in more modern vehicles, it is much better at protecting the turbos.
Plus, it can be fully tuned, and it is pretty much only engaged when the ECU detects that you will be crossing the surge line of the compressor map (requires negative pedal gradient and certain predicted pressure drop).

After reading the section of the FR dealing with this I decided it was a bad idea to remove it.
Whats your suggestion prj?
Always open to vital conversations  Smiley
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prj
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I just always read that people write on various forums "remove it, remove it, remove it", but never see any compelling reason to.
There is some myths floating around, that the ECU will otherwise cut boost even if you are not lifting the throttle, but according to the FR and calibration in at least my RS4 ecu, this is incorrect, as you must be having a negative pedal gradient (lifting) for it to activate the valve.

I would suggest for extending turbo life leaving it connected and just tweaking it in software to have the threshold a tiny bit higher if you want more responsiveness.
You can read about how the logic works in FB LDUVST 2.100 Funktionsbeschreibung.

This is just what I have figured out, but I don't pretend to be 100% right about it Smiley
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SVSPORT
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What codeword triggers it to remove it? Somewhere i read its the CLALDUV ?

Address if known SVSPORT would be great, if not the codeword would be also great in oder to find it and post the address and results here!
I guess N249 fehler codeword == 0 disables it or else should look into documentation.
Upload ori file
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nyet
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WWW

I just always read that people write on various forums "remove it, remove it, remove it", but never see any compelling reason to.

Agreed.
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ME7.1 tuning guide
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
professor
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Upload ori file
Ori attached.

Good day all.
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professor
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My KFSDLDSUA has values == 230 & 200 at all 16 x 6 points.
Also the upper limit can be 2559.9(hPa) which means that over 1.55bar pressure will be released from N249. Correct? Or value on map is additive to hPa column?
My plsolap value  == 500(hPa), LDUVRS == 150(hPa), HSSLDSUA == 0.0156, SVDLDUVS all zero'ed.

prj you are next  Smiley

Responsiveness can be more aggressive by adding a 10% to all KFSDLDSUA values.
How to stop N249 throwing the 17608 error? (i ll connect N249 valve back off course).




« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:48:41 AM by professor » Logged

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prj
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My KFSDLDSUA has values == 230 & 200 at all 16 x 6 points.
Also the upper limit can be 2559.9(hPa) which means that over 1.55bar pressure will be released from N249. Correct?
Your ECU can't measure more than 1.55 bar anyway.
And above the last axis value, the last value is always used.

Please read FR on how this works. SLDSUA is predicted negative pressure gradient. You don't somehow magically add it to pressure.
Your assumption means you have not yet delved into this properly.

Quote
1. Dynamischer Ansteuerpfad:
Zur Gew¨ahrleistung einer dynamisch sehr scnellen Ansteuerung bei negativen Lastgradienten wird die Differenz Ladedruck(pvdkds) -
Ladedrucksollwert(plsol) ¨uber ein applizierbares Zeitintervall(PIDLDSUA*10msec) pr¨adiziert.
¨Uberschreitet diese pr¨adizierte Abweichung einen Grenzwert(SDLDSUA), so wird der dynamische Pfad das Umluftventil ansteuern.
Dieser Grenzwert ist abh¨angig von plsol, so daß im vollastnahen Bereich eine deutlich gr¨oßere Schwelle applizierbar ist, als im
leerlaufnahen Bereich.
Die Pr¨adiktionsrechnung wird zur Vermeidung vorzeitiger Resets auf steigende positive Werte begrenzt.
Zur Vermeidung einer Fehlansteuerung bei ¨Uberladefehlerzust¨anden (z.B. Schlauchabfall an der Waste-Gate Dose) wird der dynamische
Pfad nur aktiv, wenn zus¨atzlich zu den o.g. Bedingungen auch ein negativer Pedalgradient kleiner als GWPLDU auftritt.
Sonst w¨are bei offenem Umluftventil eine ¨Uberladeerkennung, sowie deren Heilung infolge starken Druckabfalls (pvdkds) nicht
m¨oglich.
Der Pr¨adiktionswert pdpld wird dar¨uberhinaus in %FUEDK zum schnellen R¨uckschalten von plsol auf pvdkds verwendet!
Der Reset des dynamischen Pfades erfolgt nach Ablauf einer Haltezeit (THLDUVD) oder durch Wiedergasgeben in Form von dwped
gr¨oßer GWPLDUR bzw. Verlassen des LL- Betriebes.

Quote
2. Station¨arer Ansteuerpfad:
Durch die Division von pvdkds durch pu wird n¨aherungsweise das Verdichterdruckverh¨altnis berechnet.
Unterschreitet dieses aktuelle Verdichterdruckverh¨altnis einen Grenzwert (SVDLDUVS) so wird die Umluftventilsteuerung aktivert.
Sollte jedoch der aktuelle Sollwert plsol den Umgebungsdruck (pu) + LDUVRS + HSLDSUA ¨ubersteigen wird spontan (z.B. beim Gasgeben)
die Umluftventilsteuerung inaktiviert.
Sollte auch bei ge¨offnetem Umluftventil das Druckverh¨altnis den Wert SVDLDUVS+HSSLDSUA ¨uberschreiten, so wird ebenfalls ¨uber den
Station¨arpfad geschlossen.
Anhand dieses Grenzwertes(SVDLDUVS) kann nun leicht beurteilt werden, wie hoch das das St¨orpotential beim ¨Offnen der Umluftventile
ausf¨allt. (z.B. SVDLDUVS=1.2 --> max. Absenkung beim ¨Offnen von 20% m¨oglich)

I don't know how good your german is. If you want, I can translate some of this.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 05:49:22 AM by prj » Logged

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SVSPORT
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Ori attached.

Good day all.
Use this as base..
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professor
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Your ECU can't measure more than 1.55 bar anyway.
And above the last axis value, the last value is always used.

Please read FR on how this works. SLDSUA is predicted negative pressure gradient. You don't somehow magically add it to pressure.
Your assumption means you have not yet delved into this properly.

I don't know how good your german is. If you want, I can translate some of this.


I have one translated, ll try to check it and ll response  Smiley


Quote
FB LDUVST 2100 Functional Description
This function is used to control a solenoid valve in the vacuum control line to the diverter valve.
It is inactive electronic control B_ldsua = 0 of the intake manifold pressure and with active electr. Control B_ldsua = 1, a separate vacuum from supply container to the control line to the air valve.
This arrangement can electrical. defines the air valve geo ¯ opened, but are not necessarily closed, since
B_ldsua = 0, the manifold vacuum in the lower load area is already FULLY SELF ¨ O ¨ opens the air valve.
This ffnungsverhalten dynamic requirements on the one hand and on the other hand also the Eigeno ¨ (¨ uschproblem Gera) sufficient working r be taken into account, the Ansteueralgorithmus divided into two paths.
To avoid negative influence of the secondary rluftbetriebes ¨ u ° about the opening of the waste gate (negative pressure required Delta-P
Box) may control only after a holding time (TALDUVSE) to start or the end of a short term Pedalbet actuation
place (B_ll pos. edge change).
Quote
1. Dynamic drive path:
For weight very fast, and deadly ¨ driving performance of a dynamically controlled by negative load gradient, the difference boost pressure (pvdkds) is - boost pressure set point (plsol) u ° over an applicable time interval syndicated (PIDLDSUA * 10msec) pra ¨.
Over these falls près syndicated deviation a limit (SDLDSUA), then drive the dynamic path of air valve.
This limit is dependent ¨ REGARDLESS of plsol, so that a significantly large area in vollastnahen ¨ sser threshold to apply, as in the area close to idling.
The test is limited to avoid premature adiktionsrechnung reset to increasing positive values.
To avoid false triggering at ° Uberladefehlerzust walls (eg bag waste from the waste gate can), the dynamic
Path is only active when Zusa ¨ tzlich o.g. the Conditions, a negative Pedalgradient occurs less than GWPLDU.
Otherwise w atmosphere with open air valve via a charge detection, and their healing due to heavy pressure drop (pvdkds) not
possible.
The Pra ¨ is worth diction pdpld ckschalten daru ¨ berhinaus in% FUEDK for quick RU · of plsol used to pvdkds!
The dynamic path is reset after a holding time (THLDUVD) or by re-acceleration in the form of dwped greater GWPLDUR or leaving the LL-operation.
Quote
2. Stationary Arer drive path:
By dividing by pvdkds pu is na ¯ imately calculated the ratio Verdichterdruckverha ¨.
This falls below a threshold current Verdichterdruckverh ratio (SVDLDUVS) then the air valve control Activates. However, should the current setpoint plsol mountaineering the ambient pressure (pu) + + LDUVRS HSLDSUA u ¨ is spontaneously (eg during acceleration), the air valve control disabled.
Should exceed even with the air valve opens ge · pressure ratio value SVDLDUVS + HSSLDSUA ¨, so also via the
Stationary closed arpfad.
Using this limit (SVDLDUVS) can now be easily judged as to how much the Sto ¨ rpotential the opening of the recirculation valves · fails. (Eg SVDLDUVS = 1.2 -.> Max reduction on opening of 20% possible)


Use this as base..

Thanks SVS!

Found two 16x8 maps, six 3x1 maps and two 2x1 maps changed, CWDLDUV == 0  from 1 and TMDLDUV == 0 from 39.75.
Instead of building my program on to your file, can you describe please what did you do in order to understand?   Smiley
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 07:40:32 AM by professor » Logged

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SVSPORT
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I have one translated, ll try to check it and ll response  Smiley



Thanks SVS!

Found two 16x8 maps, six 3x1 maps and two 2x1 maps changed, CWDLDUV == 0  from 1 and TMDLDUV == 0 from 39.75.
Instead of building my program on to your file, can you describe please what did you do in order to understand?   Smiley
Only 2 maps 1x1 are different. I have made the changes on your ori file
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