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Author Topic: Audi ZF8 Swap and ECU/TCU incompatible fault  (Read 6318 times)
projectLSaudiA4
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2024, 05:07:19 AM »

Does that mean with this switch alone S6 ecu could in theory communicate fine with a ZF? If so that would be nice so we dont have to flash the rs7 SW
In the OLS that was attached earlier there are the following that I would assume does just that:

"3D126A Codiermatrix für Codierzelle Getriebeart"
    Translation: "Coding Matrix for Coding Cell Transmission Type"

"3D1269 Attribut-Byte für Codierzelle Getriebeart"
    Translation: "Attribute Byte for Coding Cell Transmission Type"

"3D1485 Attribut-Byte für Codierzelle Getriebespreizung/-übersetzung"
    Translation: "Attribute Byte for Coding Cell Transmission Spread/Ratio"

"3D1486 Codiermatrix für Codierzelle Getriebespreizung/-übersetzung"
    Translation: "Coding Matrix for Coding Cell Transmission Spread/Ratio"
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projectLSaudiA4
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2024, 08:02:40 AM »

In the OLS that was attached earlier there are the following that I would assume does just that:

"3D126A Codiermatrix für Codierzelle Getriebeart"
    Translation: "Coding Matrix for Coding Cell Transmission Type"

"3D1269 Attribut-Byte für Codierzelle Getriebeart"
    Translation: "Attribute Byte for Coding Cell Transmission Type"

"3D1485 Attribut-Byte für Codierzelle Getriebespreizung/-übersetzung"
    Translation: "Attribute Byte for Coding Cell Transmission Spread/Ratio"

You might be able to change this on the TCU side instead, see attached for what I believe needs change to match what the S6 ECU is sending.
"3D1486 Codiermatrix für Codierzelle Getriebespreizung/-übersetzung"
    Translation: "Coding Matrix for Coding Cell Transmission Spread/Ratio"

You might be able to change this on the TCU side instead, see attached for what I believe needs changed to match what the S6 ECU is sending.

Edit: ShrVar_xEngTyp_C is 0x20 in the Euro RS6 4G0927158BD 1006 SW
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 10:49:42 AM by projectLSaudiA4 » Logged
Artemisia
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2024, 09:35:26 PM »

You might be able to change this on the TCU side instead, see attached for what I believe needs changed to match what the S6 ECU is sending.

Edit: ShrVar_xEngTyp_C is 0x20 in the Euro RS6 4G0927158BD 1006 SW

Nice find, it correlates with the ECU calibrations


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Audirama
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2024, 06:28:14 PM »

You might be able to change this on the TCU side instead, see attached for what I believe needs changed to match what the S6 ECU is sending.

Edit: ShrVar_xEngTyp_C is 0x20 in the Euro RS6 4G0927158BD 1006 SW

Okay I now have all the stuff to complete my ZF swap other than the coding. There has been some very helpful info from Project LS and Artemisia

At this point I am battling with the concept of powerclass as I am using a ZF8HP55 from an Audi A6 NNT transmission code.

I know that the powerclass will mismatch so I am deciding whether it is better to adjust this on the ECU side? (original S6 ECU)

or change these values on the TCU side to match the S6 ECU?

For immo I will be using ODIS. I know it is hit or miss but my friend who is also doing this swapped managed to accomplish immo adaptation with ODIS fine. It seems what is holding him up is the powerclass mismatch.


It seems it may be easier to change the ECU Powerclass to match the transmission, but is there any thing else I need to worry about with this? I know most people use RS7/RS6 transmission for this swap, but I have found that RS7 and S8 all come with 8hp55 as well, except with different trans code like NWK for example vs the a6 NNT. Based on this, I dont see any reason why the 8hp55 from the A6/A7 should not be compatible with this engine, but I will have to see.
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jcsbanks
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2024, 03:05:05 AM »

It seems it may be easier to change the ECU Powerclass to match the transmission, but is there any thing else I need to worry about with this? I know most people use RS7/RS6 transmission for this swap, but I have found that RS7 and S8 all come with 8hp55 as well, except with different trans code like NWK for example vs the a6 NNT. Based on this, I dont see any reason why the 8hp55 from the A6/A7 should not be compatible with this engine, but I will have to see.

If it matters, in the DS1 we change the power class at run time in ECU RAM to 0 and it is an architectural decision we cannot easily back out of. As far as I know it hasn't given us any issues so far across S6 and RS6/7, but thought I should mention it as you did.
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vwmaniac
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2024, 08:59:34 AM »

just a quick point on odis, i saw in one of the reply's someone at the dealer was not able to flash an frf with odis. As far as i know you can only flash frf with odis engineering standard odis does not allow flashing. Im not sure on a dealer level how to gain  access to a legitimate odis e software but i know with an independent repair license im not authorized to use it only have access to odis service version. I know there are hacked odis e versions available but as with any hacked software trust level is very low.
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Audirama
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2024, 02:07:12 PM »

If it matters, in the DS1 we change the power class at run time in ECU RAM to 0 and it is an architectural decision we cannot easily back out of. As far as I know it hasn't given us any issues so far across S6 and RS6/7, but thought I should mention it as you did.


Thanks for the tip,

the concept of powerclass and all of this is still new to me, so I will run my thoughts by you to see if they seem feasible.

On the ecu side my original plan was to change powerclass and/or the scalars projectls listed on the ecu side while retaining the S6 file.

Since you stated powerclass is set to 0 on ds1 for s6 and rs7, I imagine the powerclass mismatch must not be an issue?

An alternative to my plan was to flash RS7 bin via ds1, with the assumption that RS models are already equipped on the ecu side for Al551 input. Does this seem like a reasonable workaround?

So rs7 bin with ecu immo off + tcu immo off = should work maybe?

If not, I will look into coding the AL551 1st by changing ShrVar_xEngTyp_C on the tcu side to match S6 engine

if thats not enough I will look into trying to get the A6 Transmission to read like an RS transmision if possible, maybe cloning from RS TCM (both al551 might work? maybe?)

of course I will test and see, but just wanted to make sure there are no obvious roadblocks that would standout to someone with experience on this
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 02:15:32 PM by Audirama » Logged
Audirama
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2024, 02:08:04 PM »

just a quick point on odis, i saw in one of the reply's someone at the dealer was not able to flash an frf with odis. As far as i know you can only flash frf with odis engineering standard odis does not allow flashing. Im not sure on a dealer level how to gain  access to a legitimate odis e software but i know with an independent repair license im not authorized to use it only have access to odis service version. I know there are hacked odis e versions available but as with any hacked software trust level is very low.

thanks for the heads up, definitely makes sense why my friends were running into that issue.
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jcsbanks
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2024, 02:35:11 PM »

Thanks for the tip,

the concept of powerclass and all of this is still new to me, so I will run my thoughts by you to see if they seem feasible.

On the ecu side my original plan was to change powerclass and/or the scalars projectls listed on the ecu side while retaining the S6 file.

Since you stated powerclass is set to 0 on ds1 for s6 and rs7, I imagine the powerclass mismatch must not be an issue?

An alternative to my plan was to flash RS7 bin via ds1, with the assumption that RS models are already equipped on the ecu side for Al551 input. Does this seem like a reasonable workaround?

So rs7 bin with ecu immo off + tcu immo off = should work maybe?

If not, I will look into coding the AL551 1st by changing ShrVar_xEngTyp_C on the tcu side to match S6 engine

if thats not enough I will look into trying to get the A6 Transmission to read like an RS transmision if possible, maybe cloning from RS TCM (both al551 might work? maybe?)

of course I will test and see, but just wanted to make sure there are no obvious roadblocks that would standout to someone with experience on this

We haven't heard of any problems by always having the Power Class set to 0 on original cars, chassis swaps, engine swaps, transmission swaps.

We've had people with ZF swaps ask us to change the ECU to RS7 and we can do that on request. You then update the DS1 and flash the ECU. My only experience of flashing all sorts of non standard versions to MED17 has been to do it through "OBD on the bench", with immo off. If you already have flash access to your ECU with a working immobiliser or the ECU has been bench flashed to immo off, you can flash the immo off file through OBD with the version change, and then ensure that every flash thereafter through OBD retains the immo off setting (which is in the xdf).

The flash of the ECU doesn't change the (emulated EEPROM) coding and I don't have info on what may also need to be changed there.

Bit of a jigsaw to piece together, lots of us have our own little niche on what we change, but I've basically swerved EEPROM and coding except to store ethanol content and map switch in it. As long as we know or contain the effects of coding on the way things like ignition tables are looked up, we don't have to do anything with coding/EEPROM when we flash or calibrate.
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Audirama
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2024, 02:51:21 PM »

We haven't heard of any problems by always having the Power Class set to 0 on original cars, chassis swaps, engine swaps, transmission swaps.

We've had people with ZF swaps ask us to change the ECU to RS7 and we can do that on request. You then update the DS1 and flash the ECU. My only experience of flashing all sorts of non standard versions to MED17 has been to do it through "OBD on the bench", with immo off. If you already have flash access to your ECU with a working immobiliser or the ECU has been bench flashed to immo off, you can flash the immo off file through OBD with the version change, and then ensure that every flash thereafter through OBD retains the immo off setting (which is in the xdf).

The flash of the ECU doesn't change the (emulated EEPROM) coding and I don't have info on what may also need to be changed there.

Bit of a jigsaw to piece together, lots of us have our own little niche on what we change, but I've basically swerved EEPROM and coding except to store ethanol content and map switch in it. As long as we know or contain the effects of coding on the way things like ignition tables are looked up, we don't have to do anything with coding/EEPROM when we flash or calibrate.

Got it, based on the advice i've stumbled upon I have seen most people are running the RS7 ecu file on swap cars even with the S motors so I will likely reach out to set that up.

One thing I just wanted to make sure about, I am currently running an S6 file with immo off (written with full flash fwiw) do you still recommend doing the flash to RS7 file on the bench? I have no issues with this just want to make sure. I will also make sure the immo is set to off on the RS7 file prior to flashing
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jcsbanks
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« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2024, 03:14:55 PM »

Got it, based on the advice i've stumbled upon I have seen most people are running the RS7 ecu file on swap cars even with the S motors so I will likely reach out to set that up.

One thing I just wanted to make sure about, I am currently running an S6 file with immo off (written with full flash fwiw) do you still recommend doing the flash to RS7 file on the bench? I have no issues with this just want to make sure. I will also make sure the immo is set to off on the RS7 file prior to flashing

You can just go right ahead and flash through OBD. It is nice to have bench flashing available for recovery, but when working with a DS1 I would let it do its thing. After you update and get the RS7 software, it will force a full flash to ensure all the segments fit together. After that it will just do the 30 second calibration flashes. Just keep the immo off flag (in the xdf) chain intact always if you need that, break it once and you'll have to bench the immo off to get OBD flash access again.
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Audirama
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2024, 07:46:01 PM »

Awesome I will do it via OBD thanks for the clarification . I will report back about any TCU woes I encounter.

I always tell everyone the best mod I ever bought for this car was the DS1
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Audirama
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2024, 06:58:11 PM »

Update on the Swap:

I got the transmission in.

I got a bench read of the a6 transmission flash and eeprom. I also got some help from ProjectLS for the AL551 immo and some help identifying stuff from artemesia.

After repinning the transmission connector, VCDS was able to read ecu and TCU fine. The only code was on the TCM ECU/TCU incompatible fault

I flashed the modified TCM immo off file without issues.

For ECU side I did a full flash with the DS1 RS7 Bin with IMMO Off. For some reason this completely wiped my ecu long coding in VCDS and some new codes appeared. Including an immobilizer fault. Even though immo has been off on ecu side and should be on TCM as well.

I will attach the autoscan. I am still digging, I have a couple ideas but I wanted to post here in case anyone else could chime in.

I do suspect maybe the issue is on ECU side and that maybe the full flash of the RS7 bin from DS1 was not enough, or immo is not completely off, may have to be adapted or flashed with ODIS on the ECU side if it comes down to it I'm guessing.

the flash file for tcm I was using is FL_4G0927158BD_006 from C7 RS6. I did not find a tcm file for C7 RS7 but I figured this would work fine with ECU SW 4G0906560B__0008

I have not tried to start the car as I dont want to lock the ecu. But the immo fault popped up after flashing the ECU file.

I also noticed that it is saying the TCM cannot be reached now. I repinned my transmission connector to match the A6 transmission. (Connection type 1 in the attached PIC) I am wondering if maybe since I flashed an RS7 TCM file I must also switch the pinout to another connection type? Just an idea.


My other friend who is doing this swap locked his ecu from immo at this step. I think he tried copying some VCDS coding to fill in the wiped coding on the ECU but it did not work so I will go another route


* I also attached the stock a6 bench read NNT code transmission in case anyone needs it or wants to take a look. I also attached bench read of TCM after flashing immo off patch and RS SW
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 07:14:57 PM by Audirama » Logged
Audirama
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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2024, 09:14:57 PM »

Update:

I connected ODIS and it communicated with the TCM just fine. Confirming that theres no issues with wiring. This time I re-flashed the RS6 TCM .FRF and this fixed communication with the TCM on VCDS as well. This got rid of the communication codes.

Next I manually entered long coding for ECU and TCU

ECU coding I used from a C7 RS7
1A2A003265460A0E1000

TCU Coding I used from C7 RS6 with same SW version
000001

This fixed all of the software compatibility codes on ecu/tcu. Now all that remains is a tiptronic code on TCU and immobilizer fault on ECU. And 4715 - No Communication with Instrument Cluster
          U0155 00 [00100111] - -

Ill attach a bench read and logs after these changes.


I also noticed that the car lets me go into neutral and reverse now with ignition on and car off. It did not allow it before. Progress?


I will have to review the long coding of other modules as well. I think the intstrument codes and tiptronic code could be related to each other and related to coding possibly.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 01:45:35 AM by Audirama » Logged
jcsbanks
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2024, 04:05:01 AM »

Speculation only, but perhaps the ECU erases the long coding as a plausibility/safety feature in the event of a fault? Unlike on BMWs, we completely ignore the coding as part of the flash, only the fingerprint is written because it is a pre-requisite for flashing. We do flash all the OBD flashable segments in a full flash.
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