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Author Topic: How to run the 551K/Q RS4 software on a 551M S4 ECU  (Read 62408 times)
silentbob
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« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2012, 11:49:12 AM »

What is the map limit?
2559mbar

Is anyone aware off the fact that you change other important modules like knock recognition and intake model that will not fit the hardware by the software change?

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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2012, 12:21:59 PM »

2559mbar

Is anyone aware off the fact that you change other important modules like knock recognition and intake model that will not fit the hardware by the software change?



I worry about this, but I have a guinea pig...  he wants a "new tune" that is "cutting edge".
Frankly I'm excited by this project.  I guess we'd have to compare the modules for knock recognition and the intake setup, but we'd run into problems if the modelling dimension of "parameter-space" grew too large.  The FR has enough explicit detail if the board's commentaries are joined with the FR.  In fact, that's a OT-thread unto itself:  "pages in the FR which have threads associated", which could be quite useful.

Totally agree with you on the impact of RS-altered hardware not present on the S-model... can this be fixed?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 12:29:52 PM by nehalem » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2012, 10:40:17 PM »

Is anyone aware off the fact that you change other important modules like knock recognition and intake model that will not fit the hardware by the software change?

there are builds with significantly different motors and intakes that work fine on M-box... and are arguably much more different from stock than RS4 is to S4.

thats not to say they could be calibrated better by properly taking into account those differences, but there doesn't seem any serious issues that come as a result.

What sort of changes do you think most important and require attention?
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silentbob
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2012, 03:32:07 AM »

You are definately right that it will work somehow but it also depends on how the car is used. If you use it only as a drag car on a sunny day you won't be bothered as much by some cut corners as you will use it as a DD in winter.

I have no first hand experience with a RS4 file on a S4 but from my general calibration experience I'd say that the main topic will be the intake model as you have a different throttle body and intake manifold. This will influence cold start, idle speed control and dynamic fueling behaviour mostly. So taking over the S4 values in that deparment will most probably help. Unfortunaltely this can't be done that easily in some cases as the RS4 uses an other structure for throttle angle precontrol in the start phase for example. Also taking over the knock recognition stuff can't hurt if you are on stock engine hardware as the noise behaviour of the RS4 engine with different pistons and cams should not perfectly fit the S4.

Maybe I'm just a bit hypersensitive on stuff like this because of my working background and all of this is no problem and works fine for most needs, but I wanted to make aware of it.  Wink   
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silentbob
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2012, 05:54:35 AM »

Just in case someone is comparing the files and is wondering why start throttle angle is 0 on the RS4:

The posted .ols is missing the KFWDKTHO map.



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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2012, 09:39:28 AM »

You are definately right that it will work somehow but it also depends on how the car is used. If you use it only as a drag car on a sunny day you won't be bothered as much by some cut corners as you will use it as a DD in winter.

I have no first hand experience with a RS4 file on a S4 but from my general calibration experience I'd say that the main topic will be the intake model as you have a different throttle body and intake manifold. This will influence cold start, idle speed control and dynamic fueling behaviour mostly. So taking over the S4 values in that deparment will most probably help. Unfortunaltely this can't be done that easily in some cases as the RS4 uses an other structure for throttle angle precontrol in the start phase for example. Also taking over the knock recognition stuff can't hurt if you are on stock engine hardware as the noise behaviour of the RS4 engine with different pistons and cams should not perfectly fit the S4.

Maybe I'm just a bit hypersensitive on stuff like this because of my working background and all of this is no problem and works fine for most needs, but I wanted to make aware of it.  Wink   

thanks for the heads!  In reality many of us with the serious builds are running the rs4 intake pieces and or heads so it should greatly improve those same areas.  I have attempted to make changes for it yet still to this day i do not know if they worked.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2012, 09:17:09 PM »

Hi -

I took a risk and tried starting the car with a basic q-box setup.  Here's what I did:  TVUB, KRKTE, MLHFM, MLOFS, KFMLDMX, KFMLDMN, KFKHFM, TABGSS, TABGSS2, TEMIN modified to have the same values as my running m-box interpolated correctly.  Please recall I'm running a modified M-box on a originally A-box car and have K04 turbos.

The car started up immediately four times in a row, sounded perfect and started very smoothly.  It then immediately shut-off.
This must be pedal related.  It shut off within 2, maybe even 1 second of startup.  However the RPM actually went upto about 1200 rpm and it wasn't just sputtering, it was 100% running for sure...   The car did not go into any kind of bad mode, except that it shut the hell off...  LOL.

What can be the solution to this?  I know this must be pedal related.  I was quite surprised this did not brick my ECU.  I reflashed the old m-box tune, did two startups to check, and its again like nothing happened.  I think the risk is low here, we just need to figure out the problem to convert the pedal maps.  That's my guess.  Somethings tells me snowtrooper is required.  LOL
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silentbob
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2012, 11:19:51 PM »

What makes you thinks it is pedal related? Did it shut off when you did a tip in or just like that?
Using a bigger throttle body with a S4 file is not that big of a deal because the start and afterstart phase is calibrated with the small throttle body so worst that can happen is your rpm overshoot is too high. The other way round it's not that easy.

Try it with KLAF copied from a S4 file or better all variables of BGMSZS.
If this doesn't help you have to log the start with the varibles I have told you plus wdksom_w
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2012, 01:57:00 AM »

I've never heard of those modules, so I'll try to look them up tomorrow.  Also, I had two DTC's.
P0600 and P0562.  P0562 was just the typical voltage too low, I always get something like this that I clear off after flashing.

However P0600 did not go away after clearing nor after multi-starts.  (Start-stops, or whatever they were...)

16984 P0600 Serial Comm. Link (Data Bus) Message Missing

That's what I found for this DTC.  What could this mean?
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RS4boost
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« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2012, 06:53:31 AM »

I've never heard of those modules, so I'll try to look them up tomorrow.  Also, I had two DTC's.
P0600 and P0562.  P0562 was just the typical voltage too low, I always get something like this that I clear off after flashing.

However P0600 did not go away after clearing nor after multi-starts.  (Start-stops, or whatever they were...)

16984 P0600 Serial Comm. Link (Data Bus) Message Missing

That's what I found for this DTC.  What could this mean?

Ok,
only 1 real DTC is not bad for the first try.

DTC 16984 - P0600 means "Datenbus Antrieb fehlende Botschaft" => "CAN data bus malfunction / CAN message missing / CAN time out"

I believe that`s a problem with an expected CAN devices which is not there.

Can it be that you have no ASR/ESP in your car?

The "7" in the ECU coding of the 551K (coding 10711) and the 551Q (coding 5711), means that the car has ASR/ESP over CAN bus.

So it can be a coding failure.

ASR/ESP is a critical device.
If there is any failure, the ECU runs in limp mode and the car has no power.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:37:26 AM by RS4boost » Logged

s5fourdoor
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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2012, 08:17:28 AM »

Ok.  Are you suggesting to reflash but this time try 05611 sans 05711?
What variables should i log?  I read silent bobs post, should i just try that?
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nyet
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« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2012, 08:31:21 AM »

Does your car have ESP?
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Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2012, 10:36:27 AM »

I have never had an issue with an esp file on a box cars that lack it physically.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2012, 10:53:57 AM »

No, car does not have ESP.  My car is currently coded to 06611.  I'll reflash and then read the code that is on there.
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RS4boost
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« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2012, 11:43:52 AM »

No, car does not have ESP.  My car is currently coded to 06611.

Ok, then we know what`s going on with this DTC.
The engine ECU is waiting for a CAN communication with the ESP control unit and gets no answer.

Now we have a problem, because the 551K and Q are fix coded and can`t be recoded by a workshop diagnostic tool.
I have tested this on my RS4 last week.

The original Euro RS4 (551K) was ever build with ESP.
10 = Euro III (with CAT control and with SAS), 7 = ASR/ESP with CAN, 1 = manual gearbox, 1 = vehicle type B-Class.

Also the japanese RS4 551Q version.
5 = EU3-D (without CAT control and without SAS),  7 = ASR/ESP with CAN, 1 = manual gearbox, 1 = vehicle type B-Class.

Now we must have a look to the coding mechanism of "VARDEF", or both RS4 versions can only be used with cars which have ASR/ESP over CAN.

Hint: There are two coding tables within the ROM that list any and all valid codes that the ECU can accept. Altering this table will allow you to both change what a coding does, and what coding is allowed. The code table is often followed by a table that defines what flags get used for each softcode.

What`s with the problem-solving approach of "newt"?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 12:05:27 PM by RS4boost » Logged

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