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Author Topic: Stroker/bore engine builds - what has to change when altering displacement  (Read 11328 times)
nyet
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I would like to start a discussion on what is the minimum amount of work required when you change motor (and/or intake manifold) displacement

Displacement (MAF -> load calc)?
VE and/or cam overlap (various fueling issues/VVT)?
Compression ratio (optimal timing)?
Intake mani volume (air mass delay/inertia)?

Anybody have experience with tuning a bigger than stock displacement motor?
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rob.mwpropane
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I would like to start a discussion on what is the minimum amount of work required when you change motor (and/or intake manifold) displacement

Displacement (MAF -> load calc)?
VE and/or cam overlap (various fueling issues/VVT)?
Compression ratio (optimal timing)?
Intake mani volume (air mass delay/inertia)?

Anybody have experience with tuning a bigger than stock displacement motor?


Here, I kind of ventured down this path before. The deal fell through on the engine, but was interesting stuff. I have no experience though;( maybe one day.

 http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1312.0
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nyet
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What I dont get is how intake volume and engine displacement is combined.

shouldn't there be somewhere to put engine displacement separate from intake manifold volume for purposes of converting maf->load?

shouldn't that calc be independent of intake volume?
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nyet
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I'm thinking KUMSRL is it.
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nyet
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stock kumsrl is .001072 kg/hr / rpm %:
    
So multiply by 100 for %, and 2 for 2 rotations per cylinder cycle and you get:
   
(((.001072 (kg / hr)) * 1 min) / (1.29 (kg / (m^3)))) * 100 * 2 = 2.77002584 liters

HURPMH. Why am I off Smiley

anyway, lets go the other way:

(((2.7 liters * (1.29 * (kg / (m^3)))) * 60) / 100) / 2 = 0.0010449 kilograms/hr / rpm %
   
(((3.0 liters * (1.29 * (kg / (m^3)))) * 60) / 100) / 2 = 0.001161 kilograms/hr / rpm %

or, maybe

.001072 * 3.0/2.7 = 0.001191
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nyet
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Even more interesting: the FR says

KUMSRL: siehe F¨ullungserfassung: V_Hub [l] / 2578

But:
2.7/2578 = .001047 and 2578 * .001072 = 2.764

Go figure.
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rob.mwpropane
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(I love how I post, I sleep, you post, and post, and post, I wake, and it's like you never sleep!) At least your posts inform us of your thought process. Grin

The only conclusion that I ever came to was BGSRM>KISRM. And of course KRKTE. I had a quick and rough look at KUMSRL. Looks interesting/worth diving into, but I'm back off to work.

FWIW, I know a 2.7 engine is a 2.671 liter engine in reality, so that may throw your math off some.

KISRM has input for both intake volume and bore.

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nyet
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I don't think displacement really effects krkte. Airmass is airmass, 6 injectors is 6 injectors...

IMO KUMSRL is critical, since it is part of the load calculation, and is exactly proportional to displacement.
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okkim
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Any advance in this? I'm also interested since I'm about to build 3.0 liter motor, and maybe some day I know how to make my own tune Smiley
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prj
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This is pretty much not important, especially if you are underscaling your MAF.
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NOTORIOUS VR
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paging silentbob to the front desk Smiley
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prj
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The only thing you should verify is that knock control is working well pretty much Smiley
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nyet
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This is pretty much not important, especially if you are underscaling your MAF.

I'm thinking that if you are not maxing MAF, you can underscale load via KUMSRL
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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