Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
Author Topic: only manipulating LAMFA?  (Read 36210 times)
20VTMK1
Full Member
***

Karma: +0/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 113


« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 11:36:09 AM »

Hi Guys,

Is it correct to say that the stock TABGTS is a bit on the low side ? I have picked this up to 500 Deg C for normal day to day driving . I know with out logs its kind pointless , just thinking out aloud.

Ok, so I have a K04 on my car , TABGTS was always at stock , 300 deg C . I cranked this up to 500 dec C as a test and the car pulls much better when going from PT to WOT or during semi spool. Could it be that the EGT was climbing during normal driving , engaging component protection lambda control ? Take into mind that LAMFA has been correct for the "appropriate" AFR's , it doesnt sit at 14.7 across the range anymore .

Am I correct here - I swear the car drives way better
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 01:18:45 PM »

You're basically disabling BTS.

If the car drives better with BTS disabled, it means your BTS tables are screwed up.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
20VTMK1
Full Member
***

Karma: +0/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 113


« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 10:31:58 AM »

Hi Nyet ,

BTS is stock
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 10:33:08 AM »

Stock BTS only works with stock boost.

If you alter boost in any way, you need to clean up BTS or it does some very bad things to your gas mileage.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 05:12:21 PM »

Stock BTS only works with stock boost.

If you alter boost in any way, you need to clean up BTS or it does some very bad things to your gas mileage.

I get this concept but what exactly do the numbers stand for in the text table of the map? I know it stands for AFR but I guess I'm asking how to convert the numbers I see in the map to AFR and vice versa like what AFR is .73? Is it the same as lambda voltage? So the text table is lambda voltage@ x=RPM and y=load? depending how you have the x and y set up?
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2012, 05:17:31 PM »

what AFR is .73?

Time to pick up an EFI book, son Sad

AFR 14.7 is lambda 1.

Quote
Is it the same as lambda voltage?

No. Not for narrow band OR wideband.

Quote
So the text table is lambda voltage@ x=RPM and y=load?

No.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2012, 06:40:00 PM »

Time to pick up an EFI book, son Sad

AFR 14.7 is lambda 1.

No. Not for narrow band OR wideband.

No.

ok thanks for the recomendation fasha.

I know 14.7AFR = lambda 1...

What do the numbers in the text table mean then? Do they not represent AFR? How do I calculate AFR from the numbers in the text table of the map specificly? Mind you I already know how to calculate AFR via lambda. ex: 1 lambda = 14.7 AFR, 0.8 lambda = 11.76 AFR, 1.1 lambda = 16.17 AFR    Hopefully this is clearer than my first questions.

I'm now guessing they are not lambda values. Huh
Here is a pic of an example KFLBTS map for ME7.5 HS:
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2012, 06:48:51 PM »

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#LAMBTS

"KFLBTS_0_A - requested lambda for component protection when calculated EGT is above TABGBTS, scaled by FBSTABGM."

BTW there is no such thing as "lambda voltage"
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2012, 08:10:07 PM »

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#LAMBTS

"KFLBTS_0_A - requested lambda for component protection when calculated EGT is above TABGBTS, scaled by FBSTABGM."

So FBSTABGM are the values in the text table of this map?? Come on dude how about a straight answer??
Quote
BTW there is no such thing as "lambda voltage"
Please support your comment...
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »

So FBSTABGM are the values in the text table of this map??

No. The output of the BTS table is requested lambda. The result is scaled by FBSTABGM. Is there wording you thing would be better in the s4wiki? Have you looked at the FR yet?

Quote
Please support your comment...

Is there a grams/sec voltage? Are MAF values represented as voltages in air mass calculations?
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2012, 12:25:40 AM »

No. The output of the BTS table is requested lambda. The result is scaled by FBSTABGM. Is there wording you thing would be better in the s4wiki? Have you looked at the FR yet?
Ok, I will use "output" when talking about table content from now on. I know the output of the BTS table is requested lambda, my question is if the BTS table output that you see in the pic(ex: 1.0079@ intersection of x? and y? ::it's an example just pick one::..) is a direct representation of lambda or is it something else? So in other words if I have a value of 1.001 @ an intersection of the table, the AFR of that cell will be 14.7xx. (this would mean the table values are a direct representation of lambda(actually requested lambda)) what I mean by something else is: Do I need to perform some other kind of arithmetic to figure the AFR using the table output?
Quote
Is there a grams/sec voltage? Are MAF values represented as voltages in air mass calculations?
these questions are immaterial for this discussion. but yes and yes

 lambda voltage is the number represented as the lambda value
ex: lambda is at 1...aka 1Volt DC, lambda is at .83....aka .83V and so on..higher voltage=lean, less voltage=rich, 1V is ideal aka 14.7 AFR. this is how the ECU "reads" the 02 sensor's "info" by voltage. Almost all narrowband 02 sensors are like this.
some operate at a .5V range so ideal AFR is at .45-.5V. accurate reading are very dependent on EGT. widebands are measured the same way and accurate readings are not so dependent on EGT in comparison.










Logged
AndiS4
Full Member
***

Karma: +1/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 117



« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2012, 12:53:55 AM »

Ok, I will use "output" when talking about table content from now on. I know the output of the BTS table is requested lambda, my question is if the BTS table output that you see in the pic(ex: 1.0079@ intersection of x? and y? ::it's an example just pick one::..) is a direct representation of lambda or is it something else? So in other words if I have a value of 1.001 @ an intersection of the table, the AFR of that cell will be 14.7xx. (this would mean the table values are a direct representation of lambda(actually requested lambda))

= Yes they are.

In the attached, you can see a pic of lambda voltage to lambda.

Regards










[/quote]
Logged
RS4boost
Full Member
***

Karma: +46/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 125


« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2012, 04:57:13 AM »

btw

The ECU calculates the actual lambda by the "LALIUSH (2)" maps.
This map convert from the measured narrow band O2 sensor voltage to a lambda value.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 09:53:44 AM by RS4boost » Logged

nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12255


WWW
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2012, 08:24:20 AM »

Ok, I will use "output" when talking about table content from now on. I know the output of the BTS table is requested lambda, my question is if the BTS table output that you see in the pic(ex: 1.0079@ intersection of x? and y? ::it's an example just pick one::..) is a direct representation of lambda or is it something else? So in other words if I have a value of 1.001 @ an intersection of the table, the AFR of that cell will be 14.7xx. (this would mean the table values are a direct representation of lambda(actually requested lambda)) what I mean by something else is: Do I need to perform some other kind of arithmetic to figure the AFR using the table output?

Why would you need to do that? The z axis of tables is always the output of the table. Have you looked at the FR yet? If there are other conversions/scaling to be done, they are described in the FR.

Unless you are referring to the fact that the ACTUAL value stored in the ECU's memory (8 or 16 bit) isn't actually an infinitely precise floating point, and must be represented as a fixed point integer.... which is an entirely different discussion.

Quote
lambda voltage is the number represented as the lambda value
This terminology is NEVER used for a reason. Sensor voltage is converted to a lambda value. Depending on the sensor, the conversion is different. Same with MAFs.

Sensor voltage is sensor voltage.

After it is converted to different units (g/sec or lambda or AFR), it no longer has the "voltage" units.

Thus it is NEVER referred to as "lambda voltage" or "g/sec voltage", which would be confusing because there would be no way to know if the person is talking about the resulting (calculated) lambda value, or the actual voltage coming from the sensor.

It would be properly referred to as "O2 sensor voltage" or "MAF sensor voltage"
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 08:28:07 AM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
phila_dot
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +173/-11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1709


« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2012, 10:47:58 AM »

I get this concept but what exactly do the numbers stand for in the text table of the map? I know it stands for AFR but I guess I'm asking how to convert the numbers I see in the map to AFR and vice versa like what AFR is .73? Is it the same as lambda voltage? So the text table is lambda voltage@ x=RPM and y=load? depending how you have the x and y set up?

Lambda

0.73 * 14.7 = 10.73 AFR

Don't be so wrapped around AFR. Think Lambda.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.026 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.001s, 0q)