NefMoto > Technical > Flashing and Chipping > Anyone tried the new chinese bench flashers?
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Author Topic: Anyone tried the new chinese bench flashers?  (Read 31158 times)
n00beosaur
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 08:13:59 AM »
Quote from: k0mpresd on October 12, 2012, 07:54:07 PM
of course, software that works with the tool.

Does this software come with maps?
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2012, 12:42:57 PM »
no.
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n00beosaur
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2012, 03:45:30 PM »
Quote from: k0mpresd on October 13, 2012, 12:42:57 PM
no.

#1 How easy is it to find the maps with the MagPro2 software?

#2 How does MagPro2 software compare w/ ECM Titianium?


Alientech appears to be using the term "drivers" in a different way than I am used to:

Quote from:
Using Drivers, real "indices" to read the files contained in the ECU, you can easily find the main maps and limiters stored inside the files to increase engine performance or simply to save on fuel consumption.

They also claim to have easy to have a tabular view similar to the SCT software I usually use:

Quote from:
Tabular View
The tabular representation of data stored in the file read from the ECU is the easiest way, fast and intuitive to interpret, increase or decrease values​​. Clicking on the desired map, the main window is replaced by a table constructed through the intersection of the parameters on the two axes. So you can act directly on the values of the physical map, such as Nm, Bar, mm3.
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prj
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »
ECM titanium is a joke, and useless for anything remotely serious.

There is no software pretty much that will "come with maps".
There are many thousands of maps inside the ECU. Unless you have the FR document for the ECU which details how the maps interact, you can pretty much forget tuning it.

As for finding maps in HEX, if you have a DAMOS for a similar ECU, then you can probably do it. Or if you have strong reverse engineering skills in ASM.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2012, 04:45:41 PM »
That is terrible english.

Are those US based companies?
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n00beosaur
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2012, 05:17:15 PM »
Quote from: prj on October 13, 2012, 04:44:11 PM
ECM titanium is a joke, and useless for anything remotely serious.

Is it inferior to programs like SCT and Hondata? BTW I'm not trying to race my car, I'm just doing an E85 conversion and going to try to rig up ITBs. I *might* move to forced induction, but unlikely.

What would be better?

Quote from: prj on October 13, 2012, 04:44:11 PM
There is no software pretty much that will "come with maps".
There are many thousands of maps inside the ECU. Unless you have the FR document for the ECU which details how the maps interact, you can pretty much forget tuning it.

Then how does something like SCT or Hondata work? ECM Titanium appears to have a similar UI.
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n00beosaur
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2012, 05:18:21 PM »
Quote from: ddillenger on October 13, 2012, 04:45:41 PM
That is terrible english.

Are those US based companies?

Alientech is from Italy. They're one of three companies who make software which works with VWs AFAIK.

Is there a better program for VWs?
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terok
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 03:36:50 AM »
If you have used for example Hondata in the past, first you need to forget everything you know about it or tuning Honda.
Bosch ecu's have for very long time been much much much more complex than those.
With typical old Honda setups, you get all the important maps and switches, even with customized ecu firmware. You can forget this with Bosch and virtually all new ecu's.
You can buy a tool that can read/write your ecu, but that's it. You can also buy software that you can modify your data file with, but that's it.
It is you who need to do all the work of learning how the ecu works and find all the maps, bells and whistles.
These tools are not limited, nor targeted, in any way to VWs.
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n00beosaur
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2012, 09:22:40 AM »
Quote from: terok on October 15, 2012, 03:36:50 AM
If you have used for example Hondata in the past, first you need to forget everything you know about it or tuning Honda.
Bosch ecu's have for very long time been much much much more complex than those.

I tuned a Focus ST which has the same ME 17.5 with SCT's software this past weekend with an XCal3 port flasher and "SCT Advantage" software. Friday I saw Cobb use their proprietary port flasher and software on A Mazda Speed 3 which also has an ME 17.5.

Why/how is this ME 17.5 in a 2.5L VW Golf MK6 different from those cars?

Quote from: terok on October 15, 2012, 03:36:50 AM
You can buy a tool that can read/write your ecu, but that's it. You can also buy software that you can modify your data file with, but that's it.

What tools and software should I buy?

Is there any software to aid in finding maps? Or do I just need to move into the basement and live on pizza like the early ECU modding?

Will you please link me to a manual or to some books to read that will get me started?

Quote from: terok on October 15, 2012, 03:36:50 AM
It is you who need to do all the work of learning how the ecu works and find all the maps, bells and whistles.
These tools are not limited, nor targeted, in any way to VWs.

Why are only some cars ME 17.5 ECUs this convoluted? There are at least a half dozen cars with ME17.5 ECUs that are EASY to tune. Why is this one different?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:24:44 AM by n00beosaur » Logged
n00beosaur
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2012, 09:23:43 AM »
Double Post
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terokoo
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2012, 11:36:28 AM »
Quote
I tuned a Focus ST which has the same ME 17.5 with SCT's software this past weekend with an XCal3 port flasher and "SCT Advantage" software. Friday I saw Cobb use their proprietary port flasher and software on A Mazda Speed 3 which also has an ME 17.5.
Good, so you are familiar with these ecus then. I googled a bit and found that even these newer 2.5l are not FSI (US market only). We don't have these ecus in europe (VAG), so cannot say anything specific to it. At first i thought you meant MED17, which is pretty complex to us mortals in the beginning of the learning curve.

I'm not familiar with SCT or Ford really, so cannot say what can and cannot be done.
I would imagine, if SCT software was freely configurable to any ecu, it would be used more widely already.
So i'm guessing when you load your file into it, it tells you automatically what is what.

Quote
Why/how is this ME 17.5 in a 2.5L VW Golf MK6 different from those cars?
Basic functionality is the same, firmwares may still be quite different. Allthough propably nothing you couldn't figure out. Car manufacturers might have different transfer protocols, encryptions, passwords, seed&keys and so on, that is why you cannot read or write all ecus with same tool.

Quote
What tools and software should I buy?
Is there any software to aid in finding maps? Or do I just need to move into the basement and live on pizza like the early ECU modding?
WinOLS by german company EVC is pretty much industry standard, allthough there are others. Demo version is freely downloadable from their website.


Quote
Will you please link me to a manual or to some books to read that will get me started?
Are there any? I don't know.

Quote
Why are only some cars ME 17.5 ECUs this convoluted? There are at least a half dozen cars with ME17.5 ECUs that are EASY to tune. Why is this one different?
If you say the others are easy, so is this one.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 12:01:47 PM by terokoo » Logged
n00beosaur
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« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2012, 12:04:44 PM »
Quote from: terokoo on October 15, 2012, 11:36:28 AM
If you say the others are easy, so is this one.

The tools I have always used aren't compatible with this car. That's why I have to ask in the first place. This ECU is ME 17.5 which unless I am mistaken is AKA MED17.5.

It's tunable in American cars via SCT (even though the Focus I tuned is effectively a Euro import) and it's tunable in Subarus and Mazdas via Cobb. For some godforsaken reason however, in this particular VW --an ME17.5 is a nightmare and isn't even tunable via the VW DIY tools.

I've never paid for a tune, and I don't really want to start now. However, I'm not in keen to spend half the price of my brand new car on flashing tools only sold through what appear to be pyramid schemes.
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RaraK
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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM »
VW's are not flashable because they enable "tuner protection" in their ecu's.  Therefore you need to bootmode read/write ecu, or unlock ecu then you can flash obd.

you will need winols and definition files to even start, the software you use now is a premade solution in a way, its inferior to winols.

You are comparing apples and oranges, ford / gm in my experience do not care about locking down ecu's at all from tuners. 


You are better taking your car to reputable tuner and paying for a custom tune in the long run.
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n00beosaur
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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 07:28:12 PM »
Quote from: RaraK on October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
VW's are not flashable because they enable "tuner protection" in their ecu's.

I figured it was some sort of security protocol, and that VW wasn't keen to give people keys.

Quote from: RaraK on October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
Therefore you need to bootmode read/write ecu, or unlock ecu then you can flash obd.

How would I go about doing this unlock or having someone do it for me?

Quote from: RaraK on October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
you will need winols and definition files to even start, the software you use now is a premade solution in a way, its inferior to winols.

Where do I get the definitions for my motor? Buy them?

Quote from: RaraK on October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
You are comparing apples and oranges, ford / gm in my experience do not care about locking down ecu's at all from tuners.  

A GTI is DIY tunable via port flash as is a Golf R. I seriously wonder if VW has this 2.5L base Golf locked down to move the modder crowd onto more expensive cars.

Quote from: RaraK on October 16, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
You are better taking your car to reputable tuner and paying for a custom tune in the long run.

Everyone around here seems to be reselling tunes from guys I'll never meet face to face. I'm not comfortable with mailing my ECU off either. I may eventually have to do this, but I'm not giving up until I've exhausted alternatives. Tuners on the web that I never meet can't just see my AEM show A/F being off and fix it. And then every time I add mods, I'll have to mail the ECU off again. If there were a local guy who could tune this car --I'd be far more keen.

*edit --by here I mean Texas
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 07:57:10 PM »
Quote from: n00beosaur on October 16, 2012, 07:28:12 PM
A GTI is DIY tunable via port flash as is a Golf R. I seriously wonder if VW has this 2.5L base Golf locked down to move the modder crowd onto more expensive cars.

no. 100% dead wrong.
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