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sn00k
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« on: November 02, 2012, 03:57:27 AM »
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So, new pump, fpr and injectors are fitted and everything is dialed in 100%, LTFTs are down to 0.4% on partial and 0.2% on idle. (this was made during the summer) timing etc are dialed in for maximum torque/power, and the car runs agressive and pulls strong, yet really smooth, no issues whatsoever. NOW the winter is here its getting cold outside, 1.5dm of snow just fell, and the tuning for smooth starting and warm-up begin. i understand that under 9 degC the alcohol part wont really evaporate/ignite well, and so im using injectors with insane atomization and high fuel pressure to counter this, and it works really well, but as it gets down to -40 here in the winters i really need to tune/perfect the cold starts. people tell me to add several hundreds of percent to cranking and cold-start maps and so ive been experimenting alot.. on really cold days the engine still fires up allmost instantly, but then dies as soon as i even look at the thottle.. and even if i rev it to keep it running, there is just no power there at all, and i end up driving out of the parking-lot at 3000+ rpms with a white cloud behind the car..  and so now i need to know which maps to fiddle with..! the ones i have tried are: FKSTT_0_A, FKSTT_1_A - which i assume is the cold start enrichment? KFWKSTT_0_A, KFWKSTT_1_A - which i figured would be some form of cranking enrichment? lately someone mentioned these maps KFFWL_0_A, KFFWL_1_A, which seem to be warm-up maps, which might actually be what i am looking for.. so now im confused as to which maps does what..  i know i will need to add more fuel on cranking, but how/where? and i know i will need to add more fuel when the engine has fired up, based on engine-temp from -40 up to ~20degC, i.e warm-up, but in which map? Any help/thoughts is appreciated!  (btw. the engine is an 1.8t with ME7.5 wideband.) |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 04:00:58 AM by sn00k »
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prj
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 04:39:54 AM »
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To start with - why is it holding back. Are you lean or rich when this happens?
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masterj
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 05:34:21 AM »
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So, new pump, fpr and injectors are fitted and everything is dialed in 100%, LTFTs are down to 0.4% on partial and 0.2% on idle. (this was made during the summer) timing etc are dialed in for maximum torque/power, and the car runs agressive and pulls strong, yet really smooth, no issues whatsoever. NOW the winter is here its getting cold outside, 1.5dm of snow just fell, and the tuning for smooth starting and warm-up begin. i understand that under 9 degC the alcohol part wont really evaporate/ignite well, and so im using injectors with insane atomization and high fuel pressure to counter this, and it works really well, but as it gets down to -40 here in the winters i really need to tune/perfect the cold starts. people tell me to add several hundreds of percent to cranking and cold-start maps and so ive been experimenting alot.. on really cold days the engine still fires up allmost instantly, but then dies as soon as i even look at the thottle.. and even if i rev it to keep it running, there is just no power there at all, and i end up driving out of the parking-lot at 3000+ rpms with a white cloud behind the car.. and so now i need to know which maps to fiddle with..! the ones i have tried are: FKSTT_0_A, FKSTT_1_A - which i assume is the cold start enrichment? KFWKSTT_0_A, KFWKSTT_1_A - which i figured would be some form of cranking enrichment? lately someone mentioned these maps KFFWL_0_A, KFFWL_1_A, which seem to be warm-up maps, which might actually be what i am looking for.. so now im confused as to which maps does what.. i know i will need to add more fuel on cranking, but how/where? and i know i will need to add more fuel when the engine has fired up, based on engine-temp from -40 up to ~20degC, i.e warm-up, but in which map? Any help/thoughts is appreciated! (btw. the engine is an 1.8t with ME7.5 wideband.) *KSTT maps instructs ecu to fuel during crank and start of your engine (few secs), then it switches over to KFFWL and they fuel your car up to 90deg |
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sn00k
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 07:46:04 AM »
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To start with - why is it holding back. Are you lean or rich when this happens?
im having difficulties reading the wideband-sensor since it is not in working temp-range.. but once it reaches temp it tells me Lambda ~0.8ish. i dunno what it should read, as were basically pushing ~75% of the fuel straight thru the engine here.. only igniting ~25% of it in really cold starts.. you think it can be calibrated using lambda even tho the ethanol is present and left unburnt/vaporized into a white smog? *KSTT maps instructs ecu to fuel during crank and start of your engine (few secs), then it switches over to KFFWL and they fuel your car up to 90deg masterj: are you 100% sure of this? if so, then i havent even touched the warm-up tables yet, and that makes a huge room for improvement, haha  after a quick look in FR it seems the FKSTT maps are the basic factor, with this and the weighting factors KFWKSTT, KFWKSTN i should be able to get the cold-starts sorted.. and get onto the warm-up which seems to be the issue when driving from the parking lot. modifying KFFWL and KFFWLW should sort this if i understand things correctly.. i will need to dig into the ESSTT, ESWL modules a bit further.. thanks for pointing me in the right direction! more E85 cold-start tuning experience is very much welcome, suggestions of increments, temps, times, timing etc etc |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 08:49:59 AM »
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sn00k
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 10:05:02 AM »
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yeah, im using multi-spark right now, been adjusting it a bit, but trying to add more sparks at higher rpm,>2000rpm resulted in missfire.. guessing i need to lower the dwelltime or lenghten the time between sparks. adding more sparks down low, <1200rpm, did definitely result in cleaner startups with the E85. |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 10:11:12 AM by sn00k »
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 10:32:10 AM »
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To start with - why is it holding back. Are you lean or rich when this happens?
Could you possibly detail your EV14 cold-start anecdotes? What about your experiences with dwell time? Your comment two weeks ago about the true linearity of EV14's post TVUB/KRKTE centering is so accurate. The car pulls so fucking hard right now and I'm still on 15 psi. Obviously I'm using our mutual friends timing maps too... |
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prj
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
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im having difficulties reading the wideband-sensor since it is not in working temp-range.. but once it reaches temp it tells me Lambda ~0.8ish.
i dunno what it should read, as were basically pushing ~75% of the fuel straight thru the engine here.. only igniting ~25% of it in really cold starts.. you think it can be calibrated using lambda even tho the ethanol is present and left unburnt/vaporized into a white smog? Well, try to use a separate gauge that will warm up the O2 sensor with just ignition on, so that when you start you see the actual mixture. As for your second question, I don't see how the amount of fuel pushed straight through the engine would affect the lambda reading. So yeah, it definitely can and should be calibrated using lambda. |
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masterj
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 12:01:36 PM »
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i would use innovate mtx-l gauge to fix warm up fueling  just wait for o2 to heat up on ignition without starting the car |
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sn00k
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 02:11:18 PM »
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Well, try to use a separate gauge that will warm up the O2 sensor with just ignition on, so that when you start you see the actual mixture.
As for your second question, I don't see how the amount of fuel pushed straight through the engine would affect the lambda reading. So yeah, it definitely can and should be calibrated using lambda.
roger that, ill hook up another wideband and see what it reads during cold starts, if this can indeed be calibrated with the lambda then it shouldnt be too hard to get it spot on.. id imagine the map will look pretty strange at the point where the alcohol start to ignite.. since it will go from ~2-300% enrichment down to 5-15%.. ty for the advice, ill look into this |
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jibberjive
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 04:05:40 PM »
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I was going to suggest looking at the dwell time and spark, but it looks like you've already covered that. Following this thread for my future E85 reference.
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sn00k
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 05:26:16 PM »
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using NGK BCPR9ES-11 sparkplugs, these help tremendously with e85 starts and smoothness, them are colder and with a wider gap, and this im combination with MSD produces multiple really strong sparks, dont think i can improve it much further without adding plasma discharge.. why i chose these plugs is because: 1. copper electrode, very efficient heat transfer, wont glow or cause pre-ingitions like the iridium and platinum plugs tend to do when using this fuel, E85 is supposedly 8 times more sensitive to this then normal pump-gas. 2. colder, 9 instead of oem 6, is chosen because we really dont need the plug to be so hot that it burns of soot and other layers, the E85 will clean it more then enough, and then good heat transfer to the cyl-head = only positive. 3. wider gap, from oem 0.8mm to 1.1mm, for a stronger and wider spark gap, these ignition-coils can handle it with very positive results. 4. single electrode, for a good and strong spark in the center, plugs are good enough for ~60000km imo, and cheap compared to the oem platinum ones, infact very much so, might even swap em after 30000km.. just thought id throw this info in here if someone were interested, even tho it is a bit off-topic, it helps alot to have these things sorted before tuning the fueling and cold starts.. as with the oem plugs i noted pre-ignitions, surge/hesitation and popping sounds in the exhaust all the time, and also had to crank even harder to get the engine running. |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 05:53:18 PM »
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Have you looked at KFZWWLRL for timing?
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sn00k
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 06:03:01 PM »
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Have you looked at KFZWWLRL for timing?
completely missed that one, ive been looking for something similar, very usefull, thanks! any suggestion as to increase or decrease the timing advance during cold starts with this fuel? ..also KFZWWLNM looks very interesting, is this map allways active? |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 06:07:27 PM by sn00k »
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jibberjive
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 06:37:00 PM »
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Decrease
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