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k0mpresd
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« on: November 05, 2012, 09:56:13 PM »
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would like to hear what you guys do, if anything, about protecting your tune. encryption boards, epoxy on the board, ect. the scrambler boards are useless as the data can just be dumped in bootmode. epoxy on the board i feel is useless to a point. its still pretty easy to defeat.  so, is it even worth it to try to protect your work? |
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elRey
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 10:04:00 PM »
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I've ask about immo functions so i could at least ask for vin and hard code that so tune compares my hard coded vin against immo chip vin. then if missmatch force limp mode.
not that secure
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 10:16:44 PM »
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exactly. pointless. dump eeprom, immo off, protection broken.
i guess really there should be 2 points to discuss here. protection against cloning vs protection against just getting a read.
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 10:51:34 PM »
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There have been a few instances that I tried to dump contents through the same scrambler board/chip and each time received a slightly different file, then trying again non-boot using Nef and getting another file.. I thought these scrambler/encryption boards could recognize boot mode then send bad data?
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 11:11:00 PM »
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i got bad data in the bootloader part one time. just patched the bootloader with one from the same file # and it was fine. i just considered it a fluke. only time ive had a problem reading them.
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 11:17:15 PM »
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just patched the bootloader with one from the same file # and it was fine.
Can you explain this? |
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2012, 11:18:53 PM »
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0>ffff in hex.
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SVSPORT
Full Member
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Posts: 104
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 03:27:05 AM »
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I think there is no protection on the bench, if there is a pro tuner.  I prefer to lock the OBD for "small" tuners...  |
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Bische
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 03:31:48 AM »
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I think there is no protection on the bench, if there is a pro tuner. I prefer to lock the OBD for "small" tuners... How is that done? |
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prj
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 04:20:35 AM »
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How is that done?
Disable the upload service... But that won't save it from anyone who is serious about reading it. What I do on older ECU's, is I add an additional checksum algorithm and modify some values in the ECU (for example MAF calibration), to calculate this checksum and then use an offset for every value. I don't store the checksum anywhere, only the offset. And if anyone modifies my file, the MAF will stop working. If they even manage to strip all my ASM logic from the file, then the MAF will still not work because the actual calibration is "wrong" and needs the offset. I do this for a couple of maps... so people don't touch my base tunes. As for copy protection - you are never going to achieve this. But I think some clever things can be done to prevent someone taking your tune, making a couple changes to it and passing it as their own. |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 10:56:35 AM »
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I think there is no protection on the bench, if there is a pro tuner. I prefer to lock the OBD for "small" tuners... yes, nothing has ever stopped me from getting a read. this is the main reason i was wondering what other people's methods were. really i feel like things are just more of a deterrent than an actual protection. |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 10:59:41 AM »
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i really feel like the best method would be the epoxy on the board, top and bottom since bootpin is on flash, cpu, and ram. most people are too scared to heat it to remove it. and some sort of software run-around like prj describes + lock file to the eeprom.
at least then you have to break down 3 doors and at the most you would be able to clone the file and never modify anything.
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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 11:21:42 AM »
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I prefer to just do good enough custom tunes that they don't copy over well. And I change weird obscure stuff that i can reference and know when people do copy.
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cartoons?
6A 61 72 65 64 40 76 6C 6D 73 70 65 63
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jpi512
Newbie
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2012, 08:28:53 AM »
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hello.............
its hard to me explain my method in english...........
in this moment i use a combination of a glue and sodium bicarbonate, that convert in a few seconds in a rock.......
in second way, in this moment im talking with a programmer that offer me in a solution. first step is encript some maps, this force to cloner to use "complete file".if use it..... then a few minutes/hours. the car stop, and erase flash eprom and eeprom..........
what do yo think?
jpi512
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lulu2003
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2012, 08:59:10 AM »
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nice thoughts!
physical (glue) protection agains boot mode or BDM means you are only able to write by OBD?
there won't be a 100% secure way, I think, unless you want to be able to re-write.
I like the Idea by prj but wouldn't it be easier to change some hardware that belongs to the software calibration. easiest way would be like a resistor between ECU and a sensor (e.g. MAP/MAF) and change the according maps.
That would confuse 99% of tuning related people and copy paste will not work, and you know that probably even less than 1% really know what they can read.
Same applies to very custom tunes.
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 09:08:52 AM by lulu2003 »
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