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overspeed
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 12:39:39 PM »
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As elrey said the use an Marelli patent solution called SFS, wich is no much more of leave the narrowband sensors find an multiplier called "K" wich is the ethanol/gasoline proportion.
The process to find K is started by some situations like when you start the ignition and the fuel was more than 20 liters (some cars is 10 or 15 liters) than it was before... an guy said that there is another triggers to begin the "K adaption" like if the misture is lean and have no detonation (means that Ethanol -wich is 110oct- is more present)
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elRey
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 01:52:14 PM »
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By the way, if You find how to deactive the "flex" system in these files I´ll be very Happy !!! What behavior are you trying to disable? What does it do that you do not like, and what do you want it to do instead? |
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overspeed
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2012, 02:25:53 PM »
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The problens are:
1- CR, some engines are 10,5:1... in this case Etanol can´t reach the best consuption or power.
Some engines more moderns are about 12:1 but in this case the operation with pure gasoline is bad, the calibration make it run richer and with low advance... besides, the best CR for etanol are about 12,5 to 13,5:1
You can´t reach the best condition ever !!!
2- We convert several NA engines to turbo... 10,5:1 gasoline engines using etanol can handle more 12psi even without intercooler... but SFS don´t deal very well.
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elRey
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2012, 02:45:37 PM »
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Do you want the ECU to stay on ethanol mode or gasoline mode?
To me it looks like the stock ECU adds timing and fuel BUT decreases power for better consumption in ethanol. Is this true?
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 02:52:21 PM by elRey »
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phila_dot
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2012, 03:08:58 PM »
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To me it looks like the stock ECU adds timing and fuel BUT decreases power for better consumption in ethanol. Is this true?
Where are you getting this? I disassembled the 05A9 file but haven't gotten to go through it at all. Just curious if you've identified any of the flex fuel code. What's up with the "ME7.5" VW file size? |
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elRey
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 03:33:30 PM »
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The clear example of different maps being used is KFPED. I followed that condition to what looks like the use of fnwue. Since fnwue was used on the 1.8T to use different timing, etc it makes sense to use it for ethanol content.
I see where they set fnwue and one other similar variable by 2D maps, but I have yet to identify the input for those maps and how it's related to ethanol content.
edit: frau_w is the input to map that sets fnwue (like) var. So, it does seem to be apart of the flex functionality.
But from overspeed's comments, I don't think it will be much better than what we can come up with vs time spent trying to reverse these files.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 10:23:12 PM by elRey »
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elRey
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 08:46:55 PM »
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It looks like it doesn't adjust fueling. It stays at a high frm and uses that value (frau_w specifically) to scale a timing additive. It also looks at B_kfzk and some variable from KRDY as a condition to use frau/fnwe based timing additive or not.
So, overspeed, you never did specify what you want (clearly). Are these narrowband or wideband cars?
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 08:48:40 PM by elRey »
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overspeed
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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2012, 09:41:39 AM »
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What we realize is the primary calibration is on ethanol (with prioritary target to minimize consuption, but power is lower than could be), is the ECU see that is too much rich it tend to guess it has some gasoline, so the natural path is to lean the misture and decrease advance, but there is some combinations of K that means too much advance for turbo converted engines and too lean that can give some detonation.... besides it mess with start and dont´work good at all.
So, there is two issues:
1- in NA engines You never can reach the best power on ethanol or best consuption in gasoline
2- in turbo converted engines you can´t stay at stable values because the system tend to lean in some condition (partial load) that in a turbo engine can be dangerous.
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elRey
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2012, 05:09:47 PM »
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Why is the car running rich on ethanol ? The ECU requests a specific lambda based on ethanol, it is running ethanol, why is it running richer than requested?
So, you are asking for a tune, not just a deactivation of flex functionality.
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overspeed
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2012, 06:17:27 PM »
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No, You didn´t understand (my bad, english is not my first language lol !)...
Let´s say the car is now with an turbo convertion using E100, you put the gas on the floor and obviously the misture go rich as you want, in some cases the ECU start to recalculate the K factor and mess with both misture (go leanner that you want) and advance (start to take advance only when start detonation in some cases)
I´m talking about generall ME7 (Opel, FIAT and VW)
So, I just want to deactivate the flex system, so it will have "one" advance table (the corrections will be deactiveted) and one fuel without corretions
In other hand, as I said, the NA engines with receive race cams or other modifications ussually have problems...
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elRey
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2012, 06:41:05 PM »
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No, You didn´t understand (my bad, english is not my first language lol !)...
Let´s say the car is now with an turbo convertion using E100, you put the gas on the floor and obviously the misture go rich as you want, in some cases the ECU start to recalculate the K factor and mess with both misture (go leanner that you want) and advance (start to take advance only when start detonation in some cases)
I´m talking about generall ME7 (Opel, FIAT and VW) This is what I do not understand. K factor is only recalculated when reqeusted AFR != actual AFR. At WOT ECU wants rich (request = rich) and if mixture is rich (actual = rich) then request = actual and K should stay same. I can not understand why ECU would recalculate K factor if the ECU is the one that wants to be rich at WOT. If it is doing what you say, then something else is making mixture rich, richer than ECU is requesting. Do you know what is making mixture rich? Is turbo before or after MAF sensor? So, I just want to deactivate the flex system, so it will have "one" advance table (the corrections will be deactiveted) and one fuel without corretions
In other hand, as I said, the NA engines with receive race cams or other modifications ussually have problems... Do you want ethanol advance table or gasoline advance table? |
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 06:43:38 PM by elRey »
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