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catbed
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« on: January 03, 2013, 02:00:26 PM »
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hello all,
I am trying to locate the cam changeover map (KFNW) for my 4B0906018CH file to help spool. I think I have located the map at 1D522, but there are 3 maps at the location that look like it could be KFNW. The KFNW map for the M-Box that I am referencing is a larger map and has different axes. The FR says that the X and Y axes are NMOT_W and RLNW_W. Can anybody help me out finding this map?
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« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 02:02:03 PM by catbed »
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littco
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 03:07:03 PM »
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hello all,
I am trying to locate the cam changeover map (KFNW) for my 4B0906018CH file to help spool. I think I have located the map at 1D522, but there are 3 maps at the location that look like it could be KFNW. The KFNW map for the M-Box that I am referencing is a larger map and has different axes. The FR says that the X and Y axes are NMOT_W and RLNW_W. Can anybody help me out finding this map?
KFNWSE is the only map you need . It will show 18 and -4 in the table, I spent a lot of time last year playing with this map, and I found what you gain in spool you lost in performance while the turbo was off boost, The car drove alot better with the a large overlap as you would find in a NA car over closing the overlap from 1000 rpm and running it as does at the 4750rpm where normal VVT switches. If you want to test the theory just set cdnws to 0 and that will disable the VVT and run the cams at the lower overlap value ie around 1 degree. |
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catbed
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 05:01:58 PM »
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KFNWSE is the only map you need .
It will show 18 and -4 in the table,
I spent a lot of time last year playing with this map, and I found what you gain in spool you lost in performance while the turbo was off boost, The car drove alot better with the a large overlap as you would find in a NA car over closing the overlap from 1000 rpm and running it as does at the 4750rpm where normal VVT switches. If you want to test the theory just set cdnws to 0 and that will disable the VVT and run the cams at the lower overlap value ie around 1 degree.
The M-Box definition file I am using has the map labeled as KFNW, so that is why I called it that. I did notice the FR uses KFNWSE. Any help finding it in my bin? I am a little confused as to what you are saying as well. It was my understanding that VVT was only used during cold starts to heat the cats faster. Were you experimenting with a 1.8t or 2.7tt? When there is large overlap, I thought that the increased the manifold pressure to help a large turbo spool. It will have little effect on the 2.7's twin k03/k04s. |
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jibberjive
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 02:27:17 AM »
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Some of the different ECU's have different cam changeover schemes, some with multiple maps. For example, like you found out, the B5 S4 m-box uses KFNW, whereas the B5 RS4 k-box has bunch of different KFNW** maps (though from above, apparently the only on that matters is KFNW). I spent a lot of time last year playing with this map, and I found what you gain in spool you lost in performance while the turbo was off boost, The car drove alot better with the a large overlap as you would find in a NA car over closing the overlap from 1000 rpm and running it as does at the 4750rpm where normal VVT switches. If you want to test the theory just set cdnws to 0 and that will disable the VVT and run the cams at the lower overlap value ie around 1 degree.
So the off boost performance is very noticeably different huh. Bummer. Did you notice a gas mileage change when you were playing around with the different settings? Did you ever try a 'midde-road- switchover point, like ~3500 RPM or something |
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catbed
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 10:24:30 AM »
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Any help finding the KFNWSE maps in my file? Or at least some input on which of the 3 maps I found is correct?
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SVSPORT
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 11:12:40 AM »
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Any help finding the KFNWSE maps in my file? Or at least some input on which of the 3 maps I found is correct?
Here your maps Look at NWSOLLE |
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20VTMK1
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:07 PM »
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Hi .
With regards to the 1.8t , if you installed NA 20VT cams from one of the NA 20vt engines , would this effect EGT's - based on the VVT action and different profiles when compared to stock BAM cams ?
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littco
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 02:01:37 PM »
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Some of the different ECU's have different cam changeover schemes, some with multiple maps. For example, like you found out, the B5 S4 m-box uses KFNW, whereas the B5 RS4 k-box has bunch of different KFNW** maps (though from above, apparently the only on that matters is KFNW).
So the off boost performance is very noticeably different huh. Bummer. Did you notice a gas mileage change when you were playing around with the different settings? Did you ever try a 'midde-road- switchover point, like ~3500 RPM or something
I can only talk about what I was testing at the time, which was a k04 hybrid on a 1.8t. The original map was set for the switch at 4750rpm, I looked into as I was getting surge at around 3500rpm and 21psi, which is typical for the turbo really. I basically spent time change the switching RPM to see how it A) affected the surge point and b) performance. Anyone that has run turbo motors on a fixed cam will know that overlap is a no no for a turbo, as when on boost the gasses get blown out the exhaust with the overlap, while a specific turbo cam has no overlap. The main thing I found when i set the cam switch point lower was that the off boost performance espeically around 2k-2.5k was considerably more sluggish to the point I actaully didn't like the way the car drove, I put it down to the cam profile when it'sat 23 degrees offers a good performance increase as if you where running a NA car. When the turbo kicked in though it was a better drive. so it was a case of finding the point of lowering the cam switch point to a position where the off boost was good and on boost as well, which I think was around 3750 in the end. And that's where I left it. The other thing that I noticed was that the MAF flat spot moved with the cam switch but that was down to where the kfzw maps switch as well |
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catbed
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 02:54:59 PM »
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I can only talk about what I was testing at the time, which was a k04 hybrid on a 1.8t.
The original map was set for the switch at 4750rpm, I looked into as I was getting surge at around 3500rpm and 21psi, which is typical for the turbo really. I basically spent time change the switching RPM to see how it A) affected the surge point and b) performance.
Anyone that has run turbo motors on a fixed cam will know that overlap is a no no for a turbo, as when on boost the gasses get blown out the exhaust with the overlap, while a specific turbo cam has no overlap.
The main thing I found when i set the cam switch point lower was that the off boost performance espeically around 2k-2.5k was considerably more sluggish to the point I actaully didn't like the way the car drove, I put it down to the cam profile when it'sat 23 degrees offers a good performance increase as if you where running a NA car. When the turbo kicked in though it was a better drive. so it was a case of finding the point of lowering the cam switch point to a position where the off boost was good and on boost as well, which I think was around 3750 in the end. And that's where I left it.
The other thing that I noticed was that the MAF flat spot moved with the cam switch but that was down to where the kfzw maps switch as well
The thing is you were running a ko4 hybrid, which is still a small turbo and has almost no lag. My turbo is a garrett 60 trim, which doesnt make full boost until ~4500 RPM. The effect of massive overlap has a positive effect on big turbos, as manifold pressure and temp rises. This helps spool turbos with larger exhaust housings. |
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 10:58:35 PM by catbed »
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catbed
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 03:15:06 PM »
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Here your maps
Look at NWSOLLE
Thank you very much!! But any chance I can get just the addresses? WinOLS won't let me use that map pack because it says its from a newer version. |
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professor
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 04:42:01 AM »
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KFNWSE should be located around 0x282xx but cant find the exact location.
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Seat Ibiza MK4 Cupra 1.8t 20V, stg3.
"Those 1.8T 20V machines are really tough" ©
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SVSPORT
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 05:12:21 AM »
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Thank you very much!! But any chance I can get just the addresses? WinOLS won't let me use that map pack because it says its from a newer version.
Here your CSV map list |
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catbed
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 10:26:33 AM »
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Here your CSV map list
Thanks! Now I just need to find axes and scale, and then test it out! I'll report back with logs if anyone is interested. |
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professor
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
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Thanks! Now I just need to find axes and scale, and then test it out! I'll report back with logs if anyone is interested.
Waiting for your result. If help needed with axes let me know. |
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Seat Ibiza MK4 Cupra 1.8t 20V, stg3.
"Those 1.8T 20V machines are really tough" ©
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 03:50:27 PM »
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Thanks! Now I just need to find axes and scale, and then test it out! I'll report back with logs if anyone is interested.
Also interested in the results of this.  |
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