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Author Topic: Reading PIN from used instrument cluster EPROM data  (Read 43495 times)
roadrunner4
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« on: February 01, 2013, 06:29:17 PM »

Hi

I need to extract the PIN from instrument cluster of a used audi A8 1999 facelift car which has IMMO 3.  I can see from the site how to read the data to extract the PIN from the EPROM file taken from the ECU, but where do you read that data from the instrument cluster generated EPROM file and how do manipu :)late it to work out the PIN.

Great site by the way.

Thanks

« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:05:05 PM by nyet » Logged
ddillenger
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 06:32:22 PM »

Immo2 or immo3? I know you said 3, but AFAIK 99 should be immo2. Do you have the cluster dump?
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roadrunner4
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 06:50:09 PM »

The IMMO is in the cluster.  I understand that VCDS would give a different read out on the unit recognition lines once logged onto the immobiliser if it is IMMO 2 rather than IMMO 3.  I will try to log onto the undamaged replacement unit and look at the data under VCDS and repost the information as to IMMO 2 or IMMO 3.

I haven't pulled any data from either of the units yet.

I have downloaded your NefMoto software and have a dumb cable that I used to run VCDS lite on.  (I now have the Hex USB Can VCDS which will run adaptation once I have the PIN data)

It would certainly be easier if it is IMMO 2 rather than 3.

I would still be interested to learn how to read the cluster PIN from the EPROM download.

Thanks again

 Smiley


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keithwbloom
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 06:08:38 PM »

ECU guys and IMMO cluster guys need to have a summit. Cluster guys know where the IMMO data is kept, but according to Bentley service manual, the MY1999 A8 did not have IMMO. The MY2000 did, so it is possible yours came equipped because of rolling change on the production line. If it did, it will be an IMMO-3.

I believe the 5 digit pin is accessible from any IMMO equipped cluster using VAG Tacho. The 14-digit IMMO identification number is easily lifted from a bin dump of the cluster's EEPROM. What is missing that makes the whole ensemble work together when new parts are introduced is the SKC, a 7-digit, valid for one-day only number that will allow a tech to adapt a new or replacement ECU to an existing IMMO equipped cluster while retaining all of the IMMO protections.

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nyet
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 06:10:45 PM »

ECU guys and IMMO cluster guys need to have a summit

Hell yes. I have yet to find a version of vag-tacho that will find the PIN on my b5s4.... thankfully i don't have to worry about immo, but like i said, i am incompetent at even the basics.

Please help Smiley
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 06:19:25 PM by nyet » Logged

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ddillenger
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 06:17:05 PM »

Nyet-

VAG TACHO IS CRAPPPPPPPPP

Vag K+can is where it's at, and I've posted the NEWEST version that works without a proprietary interface. I can post it again if you like?
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 06:20:28 PM »

dd: thanks, i must have missed it... link me?

HRM. do we need an IMMO/Cluster area on this site?
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
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ddillenger
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 06:43:30 PM »

Here you are. The last version of vag k+commander confirmed working with non-bundled cables. You don't have to do anything to the cable to make it work. No special drivers, no serial number changes, NOTHING. Just make sure when you connect to select K-line protocol, rather than CAN.

You will have to edit the tester.ini file with your cables VCP settings. I know you guys reading this now don't need an explanation, but for future readers, just right click on the TESTER.INI, and open it with NOTEPAD. Under the COM section, change KWP=to your cable's port number. Then run the program. Easy as pie.
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 06:47:23 PM »

dd: thanks, i must have missed it... link me?

HRM. do we need an IMMO/Cluster area on this site?

I know a few Brits who would love to dive into sharing knowledge on this. They know their cluster mods very well from adapting petrol clusters to their TDIs and moving all manner of adaptation around the MkIV clusters from VDO.
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gigabyte
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 06:49:00 PM »

Just wanted to say massive thanks to ddillenger I been trying to find a version to work with a dumb cable and this was perfect.
Managed to do MTE and illuminated dials on my cluster so thanks again
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f1torrents
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 03:10:54 PM »

Im sure vag k commander is good. I havent tried it.
But I can say I love my VagTacho.

If I would only keep one cable it would be a tough call between my (REAL)VCDS and (REAL)VAGTACHO 5.0.
Id easily give up my (Clone)Galletto, (REAL)VAGDASHCAN

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roadrunner4
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 02:01:46 PM »

Hi.

I am based in the UK and the audi A8 (facelift) from 1999 to 2001 appears to use immo 3.  On VCDS the engine and immobiliser controllers show two numbers, the VIN registration and the immobiliser number.

I still haven't been able to extract the PIN from the malfuctioning cluster.  The new cluster is recognised as a KOMBI INSTRUMENT VD0 D23 by VCDS but the old unit controller can't be opened by VCDS(its appears to have been damaged by a voltage spike).

I have considered using various software packages to look for the PIN or download the faulty cluster's EEPROM, but I am concerned about blocking the EEPROM and then be left with only the engine management unit to interrogate.  I  dont want to risk blocking the ECU EEPROM by looking for the PIN there.  The engine mangement is a Bosch Motronic 7.1.

As I can't find the information how to use the cluster dump to calculate the PIN I am going to go for a read of the old cluster EEPROM and rewrite this to the new cluster.

The car should then start without any need for key matching.  The other alternative is to desolder the EEPROM and refit it to the replacement cluster.  If the soldering isn't perfect this will probably lead to problems.  Not sure I should learn surface mounted component soldering on this project. 

I am going to use an auto locksmith with professional equipment to do a read and rewrite the EEPROM to the replacement cluster.  I will of course keep the bin file and see if the pin can be found, using VCDS to attempt log-ins of the calculated PIN.


Let you know how it goes

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ddillenger
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 03:39:20 PM »

You can also desolder the small soic8 chip on the cluster and transplant it to the new one.
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cyril279
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 07:10:36 AM »

Hi.

I am based in the UK and the audi A8 (facelift) from 1999 to 2001 appears to use immo 3.  ...  As I can't find the information how to use the cluster dump to calculate the PIN I am going to go for a read of the old cluster EEPROM and rewrite this to the new cluster.

From the few immo III cluster dumps that I've seen (and been able to compare to matching 95040.bin),  I have noticed that the skc is paired three times consecutively, and this only seems to happen in one place in the file, somewhere near the vin/immo ID portion, but the actual hex-address, and even the information immediately around the data varies. But again, I only have two immo III cluster dumps to look at. I hope this helps.

there are other places where pairs repeat, but those either repeated more than three times, or less.

Edit:
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 07:37:43 AM by cyril279 » Logged
roadrunner4
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 04:31:33 PM »

Thanks for the info about the PIN position in the cluster code. May try and pull the new (used replacement item ) cluster pin from the cluster by downloading the EEPROM code now I know where to look.  I understand the bytes are reversed to calculate the PIN.   If the software I have (VAG can commander) won't read the pin directly, and then take the PIN from the engine ECU either by direct PIN read on VAG can commander or by calculation from the ECU EEPROM dump code as outlined elsewhere on the site.  (Couldn't connect to the old cluster by Vag can commander-K line- to obtain old pin from this - it appears to be that damaged).

Should then have enough information to match using VCDS.  If it doesn't work will resort back to the plan to use professional software and a well charged battery to reprogram the replacement cluster EEPROM.

Thanks again Smiley

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