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ddillenger
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« on: April 07, 2013, 02:44:46 PM »
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2000 s4, 85mm hitachi MAF, 52lb ev14 injectors, deutchworks pump, BW k04's, AWE gen2 IC's. Nothing underscaled, logs LOOK good (timing isn't representative, CF's are around 4-5 typically). Problem is, the car isn't fast. The best FATS we've gotten is 4.9.
0 misfires. 0 DTC's. AFR is 14.7 @ idle, WOT is 11.5-12. Fuel pressure has been verified, no leaks present (pressure tested @ 20psi, intake manifold smoke tested). Cam timing checked, and rechecked. Blocks 91-93 show good.
New BRK7e's gapped @ .028
Injectors, maf, and pump are BRAND new.
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« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 04:02:22 PM by ddillenger »
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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 03:44:20 PM »
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Compression test time.
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cartoons?
6A 61 72 65 64 40 76 6C 6D 73 70 65 63
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krazydbiker
Full Member
Karma: +4/-1
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Posts: 202
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 09:05:49 AM »
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really interested to find out the root cause, i know someone who is having the same issues with a different brand of car, but all engine management aspects look good with a lack of power
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ddillenger
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 09:13:27 AM »
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One thing worth noting, this car isn't responding to timing like it should. It's running 94 octane gas, but the timing tables that keep CF's sane are what I'd consider the norm for 91 octane fuel.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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rnagy86
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 09:21:44 AM »
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One thing worth noting, this car isn't responding to timing like it should. It's running 94 octane gas, but the timing tables that keep CF's sane are what I'd consider the norm for 91 octane fuel.
Just some stupid guesses: Knock sensors on their way out? Or any other sensor that does not cause a DTC yet but it still affects timing? EGT sensors? Your EGTs are reading a constant 1035C. |
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:36:10 AM »
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I had this problem for a LONG LONG time.. the car would tolerate 5-6 deg less timing than just about any other motor with the same tune, hw, and fuel.
Never could solve it. Compression good, leakdown good, cams good, even replaced knock sensors.
but... pulled the valvetrain not long ago and the machinist discovered everything looked great... except my valveguides were gone.
replaced those, dropped the CR a bit with head gaskets, and now it is making timing again.
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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ddillenger
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 09:52:52 AM »
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Just some stupid guesses: Knock sensors on their way out? Or any other sensor that does not cause a DTC yet but it still affects timing? EGT sensors? Your EGTs are reading a constant 1035C.
CDATR, CDATS, CATR are all 00'd. TABGSS(2) are FF'd to prevent intervention just in case. Sensors are unplugged. I'm going to clean/properly torque the knock sensors and see if that has an impact. Also making sure nothing is hitting the body or vibrating in a way that could be interpreted as knock. I had this problem for a LONG LONG time.. the car would tolerate 5-6 deg less timing than just about any other motor with the same tune, hw, and fuel.
Never could solve it. Compression good, leakdown good, cams good, even replaced knock sensors.
That's pretty much where it's at. The hardware is standard, the fuel is consistent. Similar configurations have allowed a significant amount more timing without issue, this car is just being stubborn. Anything else jump out at you? The logs look good to me, I see no obvious issues, but I figured maybe I'm just too close to it and need an outside perspective. |
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:58:23 AM by ddillenger »
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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ddillenger
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 10:29:14 AM »
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Because everybody loves logs, here are the newest. More timing, FATS down to 4.78 (Still awful). CF's are meh. I increased timing a bit (still less than I'd normally run) just to see the results.
I'm hesitant to post the file in it's entirety as I'm sure it'll get flashed by someone at somepoint. I'll post any data requested, or share it privately.
Thanks for the insight guys.
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 10:30:46 AM by ddillenger »
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prj
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 11:07:26 AM »
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And where is the wideband log?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 11:11:54 AM »
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wideband isn't logged, more of a visual thing. As of yet haven't figured out how (AEM). However, AFR is steady without fluctuation, it doesn't lean out, holds 11.5 throughout the run and richens up to 10.5@ redline.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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prj
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 11:14:23 AM »
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Either the turbo hotsides are not what you think they are, your exhaust is clogged, heads have been machined incorrectly, cam timing is out or wrong cams used. Wrong spark plugs, etc.
Also, at 10.5 it gets really slow...
If you can't run timing it's deffo not the compression being bad, but rather something to do with backpressure or incorrect cam configuration.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 11:32:45 AM »
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Either the turbo hotsides are not what you think they are, your exhaust is clogged, heads have been machined incorrectly, cam timing is out or wrong cams used. Wrong spark plugs, etc.
Also, at 10.5 it gets really slow...
If you can't run timing it's deffo not the compression being bad, but rather something to do with backpressure or incorrect cam configuration.
Heads/cams are stock, 2000 s4. Never removed from the car. I understand that 10.5 is rich, but that's @ 7000rpm. There's nothing more in her, that's redline. Exhaust DOES have cats (albeit high flow cats), but will be gutted shortly. Plugs are brand new and appropriate for the application. I agree on the compression, if anything less compression would mean I could safely run more timing. I feel as though I've exhausted the typical avenues here. For your consideration, blocks 91-93. Thanks guys,appreciate the input.  |
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 11:33:34 AM »
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Something is up with cyl4.
Knock voltages are very high compared to 2/5, which are usually the highest.
Probably want to pull the heads and eyeball cyl4
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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phila_dot
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 01:25:01 PM »
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Too rich...lean that sucker out!
Disclaimer: haven't looked at the logs...conservative timing first, but not too retarded...lean out AFR, then start advancing timing again.
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prj
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 03:37:58 PM »
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Get rid of the cats and set fuel normal  |
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