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judeisnotobscure
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« on: February 06, 2011, 07:15:36 AM »
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This is a stage 1 s4 m-box spike 16 psi taper to 11psi. I've added timing. i used tunerpro and the mtx electronics checksum plugin for tuner pro. thanks *edit* double check the checksums. consider this fair warning. See the flashing discussion here. http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=415. CHECKSUMS FIXED This is a good starting point for anyone to do a stage 1 tune. Use this as your guide of what to do. stage 1 91 octane updated 4-18-11 still needs to be smoothed out a little. |
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 06:43:37 PM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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setzi62
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 01:11:06 PM »
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Can't say anything about the changes you made, that's beyond my experience.
I see that the checksums are not updated in the file, maybe you missed to save updates
after fixing checksums?
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mtx-electronics
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 02:51:26 PM »
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The checksums are not updated, you probably forgot to instruct your definitions file to use the checksum plugin. It is described in the readme file, if you have problems send me an email & i'll give your more details on how to do it.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 03:26:49 PM »
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^^
yeah i still had the plugin set to detect only, not calculate... thanks
i fixed it and replaced the file in the 1st post.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 09:05:01 AM »
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if i can get all my parts in, i hope to have the car running by the end of the month. then i can see where i'm at.
I'm thinking about water/meth injection. does anyone have experience with tuning for meth. i would imagine timing is the only thing that you would mess with. any thoughts.
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« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 09:16:15 AM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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RaraK
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 08:25:46 AM »
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if i can get all my parts in, i hope to have the car running by the end of the month. then i can see where i'm at.
I'm thinking about water/meth injection. does anyone have experience with tuning for meth. i would imagine timing is the only thing that you would mess with. any thoughts.
As for the meth tuning, more timing, and less fuel during meth full open, so you should be ok bumping timing a degree or 2 at a time until your CF's starting going up. Honestly though, you are ok with just timing changes, if you want to have it dialed perfectly then yes fueling will need changed a tiny bit. The fueling also depends upon nozzle size/mix ratio. work you timing first, then check your AFR's if its getting to rich. |
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 09:06:00 AM »
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thanks, good info.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 08:00:07 PM »
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so, gwerks gave this file a run in his car, he said that there were 2 hiccups (throttle cut, or slipping clutch maybe?) between 2000 and 3000 rpms. I didn't get to see any logs though. my car is on track to be finished by the end of the month so i will be able to iron this out after my clutch is broken in.
he said launch control sounded good but he didn't launch on it... (worn stock clutch)
i used the 50 rpm dwell time which made about 2lbs boost, he mentioned that 100 rpm might build more boost.
anyone else want to give it a shot, and give me some feedback.
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 08:10:48 PM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 12:33:35 AM »
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I flashed your file and had the same hesitation issues in the 2-3k RPM range. It is definitely not a slipping clutch. I only have VCDS for logging and wasn't able to capture anything useful. I'll drop to a single measuring block and see if I can get anything better. Also, launch control worked like a charm. I didn't do a full launch since I was on a busy road, but it did exactly what it's designed to do.
Would you mind giving a short list of your performance mods? I'd be interested to know what you've done and how this tune is meant to take advantage of the changes.
Now, on to the feedback... I'm pretty new to tuning but have been reading a lot and have a couple of questions about your tune. I'm going to make the assumption that you're open to both criticism and teaching opportunities since you were open enough to share your tune.
To me, it seems there are a couple of oddities. I don't know if they were intentional or a not. If they're intentional would you mind explaining why so that I and others can learn?
First, you have a pretty big spike in the KFLBTS map at 2000 RPM. What's the reason behind adding so much more fuel at this point? I can understand adding some fuel over the entire range (and even different amounts of fuel in different areas). But, why the spike here? You said that your car is not running right now. Did you make this change when the car was running and had a reason for it? Or did you make it on instinct? Or maybe it was a mistake? (See KFLBTS-rev1.png)
Second, you've changed the KFMLDMX map. Does this mean that you're running a larger MAF? If so, why have you not also changed KLHFM? Additionally, I notice that your top end of this map is actually scaled lower than the stock map. Why is this? (See KFMLDMX-rev1.png)
Third, you've drastically changed the KDFLULS map. I understand the purpose of changing this map, but I'm confused by the direction you've taken with it. It would seem to me that the change you've made has effectively disabled all overboost protection. Your map is allowing up to 1 bar of overboost between 800 and 3000 RPM, 750 mbar at 4000 RPM, and 500 mbar at 5000 to 6000 RPM. Is it even possible for a K03 to produce that much boost? (See KDFLULS-rev1.png)
Finally, a question about LDRXN. You've set the low RPM limit to below the stock S4 limits. I assume this was to keep a smooth onset of boost without trying to cause the turbos to spool to early. But, I wonder what if any effect this would have on the rest of the system. I could see a scenario where the ECU doesn't really want to have that little load in the low RPM range and so it decides to compensate by going outside of your limits. I could be way the hell off here though. (See LDRXN-rev1.png)
As I said, I'm new to tuning. However, I'm the experimental type and it seemed to me that the extra fuel in the 1500-2500 range via KFLBTS could potentially cause or at least contribute to the hesitations. I say that because it will cause an uneven/non-smooth change in the system. Since the ECU is not designed for this it will just add the fuel within the limits of thresholds set elsewhere. Then, once things get beyond thresholds it goes into a reactive mode and begins to cut fuel/timing/boost/whatnot to get everything back on track. So, with this thought in mind and having no justification in hand for the spike I went ahead and smoothed that curve out a bit. I also changed LDRXN a bit so that even on the low RPM range the max load is greater than stock. I flashed this tune and went driving. The hesitation in the 2-3k RPM range was no longer apparent. Since I changed two maps, I cannot be certain which caused the change, but I suspect it was KFLBTS. (See KFLBTS-rev2.png and LDRXN-rev2.png)
I hope that this is helpful, and please, be brutally honest. I've already stated that I'm not an expert by any definition. I'll take any and all criticism as a learning experience. Also, on behalf of those like myself who have the interest and ability to learn I thank you for sharing your tune and for any conversation that comes out of this thread.
Matt
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 03:35:13 AM »
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Thanks for the feed back Matt. I definitely welcome constructive criticism and sharing info, which is why I posted this. I’m glad to see that the launch control worked. My mods are: 2.5” downpipes, high flow cats, 3” exhaust, Clutchmasters fx400 clutch, aluminum lwfl, plus some other unimportant crap. By the 3rd or 4th rev of this tune I hope to be taking advantage of that bigger exhaust, but my car is still apart so I haven’t done any testing yet. I wasn’t sure how to approach kflbts, so I figured more boost needs more fuel and profiled it after my desired torque curve. The spike was too much and caused problems. I will smooth that out, or put it back to stock, thanks. Try rev.2. I changed the kfmldmx to the max flow of ko3s so I wouldn’t throw a maf too high code and hit limp mode. I read about it in a post on here http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=137.0title=I will need to scale back kdfluls. I put it so high so that it wouldn’t give me issues while figuring out the other stuff, like why it will only boost to 10psi. I read somewhere that you could max the table, but I like built in safety nets so I will be scaling it down at some point. I need to rework ldrxn and raise the areas you are referring to at low rpms, although I don’t think I really lowered the load that much, I just tried to smooth out the curve. I think I can spike a little lower in the rpms as well. I found the rpm axis maps which I think will come in handy. I have made the engine speed limit about 7100 rpms and can only adjust maps to about 6500 or so… by changing the axis maps you can change all the other maps so their rpm axis go out to 7100. I'm not sure if i should touch these. axis rpm timing, load, and knock regulation. Any idea the file is boosting 10 psi when the ldrxn is set up for 19? Also kfmirl is scaled up too, requesting the same load, about 202. i'm going to change kfmirl, kfldimx, ldrxn, ldorxn, adn scale back kfmldmx. probly some other stuff too. |
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 08:19:52 AM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 01:25:50 PM »
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You guys are awesome. This forum was setup for open discussion of ME7 tuning, and you guys have embodied it perfectly. Keep up the awesome work.
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 11:02:29 PM »
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ONE PERSON FLASHED REV 2, DROVE THEIR CAR, THEN HAD A NO-START. NOW THEY CAN'T GET THEIR ECU TO WORK. THEY FLASH A FILE BUT NONE OF THEM WORK.
I don't think a tune can fry an ecu, but consider this fair warning.
Two thoughts.. 1) If it is a checksum issue it might be worth shipping the file off to MTX and see if they can validate the file. Or, maybe someone on here can check with ECUFix of WinOLS? 2) If they've flashed with Tony's flasher there may be something in the flash log from the rev2 flash that would give some clues. |
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 11:23:21 PM »
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They were flashing with galletto in boot mode, and tried a stock file, but after the flash the ecu won't start the car. The starter just cranks. He did say that the tune was much stronger and smoother now... he successfully flashed and drove on my rev 2. Gwerks started a thread to cover this. In the interest of keeping this thread on track we can discuss the flashing issues in that thread. http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=415.0title= |
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« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:05:16 AM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 02:23:11 AM »
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I don't yet have a wideband, but my intended approach to KFLBTS was to leave it alone, get boost where I wanted it, and then work on AFR using a wideband and KFLBTS. Another thought that I had was to raise it a little bit (probably just pull the whole map up the Z axis) in order to provide some protection while I tried to get boost right, then start tuning fuel with the wideband.
That makes sense about KFMLDMX, I had seen that to scale the MAF this map would need changed but didn't spend much more time looking at it since I don't intend to get a bigger MAF.
Now your changes to KDFLULS make more sense. I definitely think your rev2 map here makes more sense, but I'm still confused by your changes. What is your reasoning to reduce the allowed overboost to such a small limit on the low RPM range? Are you thinking that part of the hesitation issues are related to overboost? With my level of knowledge I'd be inclined to keep a map that at least resembles the stock curve. I'm trying to understand what your goal is with this map so that I can then understand the changes made.
Your rev2 LDRXN map does closer to what I tried but you kept more of the stock shape (i.e. with the sharp peak where boost drops off). I smoothed it out more but I really didn't have any reason for it. That's just how it ended up.
Changing the RPM axis maps is way above my knowledge level. I couldn't even begin to tell you what effect those changes would have in other parts of the system.
I also wondered about the low boost, but blamed it on the fact that I'm still running a stock exhaust. I know you're aiming for stage 2 so what I end up with will be scaled back a bit from what you end up with. I flashed back to stock yesterday though and noticed that even the stock program was only putting out 10 PSI. I cannot completely explain it, I am going to investigate the link between LDRXN and KFMIRL a bit more. KFLDIMX sounds of interest, too.
I do not think that changing LDORXN will net you anything. That's the max load when overboost compensation is active. Since you don't want to overboost at all, I think I'd prefer to leave that be and instead find any places that you are overboosting and fix that.
You also said that you might scale back KFMLDMX. I don't think that's strictly necessary. It does make sense that you'd need to raise this map since if you ever want to flow anywhere near the limit of the KO3 then you're going to have to tell the ECU that flow rate is acceptable.
I'll let you know if/when I try your rev2.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 04:00:32 AM »
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Kfdluls is what I meant to say I would scale back, not kfmldmx, sorry but the auto correct on my phone kicked in. I left kfmldmx as it was. I think you.are right about ldorxn, but I saw it done in another tune and thought I would try it. |
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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