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Author Topic: can you guys take a look? s4 mbox file  (Read 62047 times)
judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2011, 01:19:56 PM »

I would be happy to see measuring blocks
22, 23, and 24 together

3
26
27
112
115

Third gear pulls if possible please.
Thank you very much.
I'm glad you're enjoying my tune.
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I have a b5 s4
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2011, 02:24:15 AM »

Rev 5 is for 93 octane and up only... it will ping badly on 91.

Rev 4 works great for 91 oct with cf's at about 6.
Thanks agentsmith988
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agentsmith988
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« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2011, 01:06:58 AM »

Here are some quick 3rd gear pulls (not the best, but they give a baseline I suppose)

This is completely stock on rev 4 91 octane

You can see in the tail end of the pulls that the car drops into soft limp mode. I get a negative deviation code... Guess I have a leak to track down...
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2011, 05:50:31 AM »

Thanks, ill look at these when I get home today... its a jumbled mess to look at on my phone.
Good luck tracking down the boost leak.
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2011, 12:01:52 AM »

You can see in the tail end of the pulls that the car drops into soft limp mode. I get a negative deviation code... Guess I have a leak to track down...

I suspect you do not have a boost leak. I finally got around to trying the rev3 and rev4 tune and also threw a negative deviation code with rev4. The car was sluggish and never seemed to build boost properly. I'm absolutely positive I do not have any leaks.

CF logs are attached. My CF's did creep up to the 10 range. I pulled the timing back to stock and it was much better. (attached, checksums updated) Sorry, no logs.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2011, 12:15:06 AM »

I will make an adjustment and send see if that fixes the soft limp.  I have had success with a couple of cars on rev 4 and 5, I'm not sure what's causing the sluggishness in your case.  I can email u a new rev tomorrow if u would try it please.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2011, 04:05:10 PM »

i put up stage 1 91 octane... no launch control.
7100 rpm rev limit.
profiled the load curve and adjusted timing.
should fix the soft limp you guys are getting from rev 4.
let me know how it goes.
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agentsmith988
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« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2011, 08:48:30 PM »

Alright, I'm about 100 percent sure that I don't have a boost leak. I ran some comparison 3rd gear runs with the tune that's currently on my ECU (I have no idea what it is, but it runs pretty well, I'll include it so you can take a look at it if you'd like).

Soft limp mode is still engaging in the higher RPMs. Took a look at the logs and to me (I may be an idiot), but it looks like timing and requested boost need to come down proportionately in the higher RPM range.
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2011, 10:47:58 PM »

(I have no idea what it is, but it runs pretty well, I'll include it so you can take a look at it if you'd like).

The way it is tuned looks very similar to this one.
  http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=450.msg3167#msg3167
I suspect unless APR/GIAC/etc all have the same tuning philosophies that your tune is an AWE tune.

Also, I don't know what sort of difference this make, but your tuned file is a T-box file. At least according to the output of setzi62's ME7Check tool.
Code:
ME7Check.exe S4OriginalTune-Unknown.bin
==============================================================================
ME7Check v1.05 (c) mki, 06/2004-10/2010
Checking file S4OriginalTune-Unknown.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = embedded in CPU, asume 05.12/05.32
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.1/5/6005.01//22N/DstC3o/270401//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261207452'         (SSECUHN)
   - '1037362558'         (SSECUSN)
   - '8D0907551T  '       (VAG part number)
   - '0003'               (VAG sw number)
   - '2.7l V6/5VT     '   (engine id)
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - 'HW_MAN004'

-> No errors found. File is OK.   *********************

Can anyone provide information on M-box vs. T-box compatibility?
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phila_dot
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« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2011, 12:01:19 AM »

Can anyone provide information on M-box vs. T-box compatibility?

They are interchangable.
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agentsmith988
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« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2011, 01:04:31 AM »

Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that it's a T-box. I had read somewhere that they were interchangeable so I didn't know think that would be an issue.

Has anyone else been having issues being thrown into limp mode on the 91 octane tune? Or am I the only one? I find it strange that the unknown tune my car is running is running close to the same amount of boost levels and isn't displaying any issues. Or maybe the slight increase in timing and boost is the breaking point for my car...
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2011, 01:06:25 AM »

Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that it's a T-box. I had read somewhere that they were interchangeable so I didn't know think that would be an issue.

Has anyone else been having issues being thrown into limp mode on the 91 octane tune? Or am I the only one? I find it strange that the unknown tune my car is running is running close to the same amount of boost levels and isn't displaying any issues. Or maybe the slight increase in timing and boost is the breaking point for my car...

For what it is worth, I flashed your original tune to my M-box and it would not start. I verified checksums before flashing and they were correct. I did not get any codes. I went ahead and copied all the maps into my stock M-box file and flashed it. The car started four times in a row, no issues. I've attached this M-box version.

Regarding limp mode. What exactly do you mean by limp mode? Do you get RPM limited? Are you just referencing the fact that boost is significantly pulled down? I have not tried the latest version, but my issue was that boost was cut.

Finally, regarding why the two tunes behave differently (specifically around limp mode). To me it doesn't seem to important that they run similar levels of boost/timing. Clearly, your original tune functions fine at these levels so it isn't the boost levels with the new tune. Timing made a difference for me, and Jude pulled some in the latest rev. Instead, I feel it's far more likely that the difference comes from how they are tuned. For example Tony, Nyet, Jude, myself, etc. are all increasing boost levels by increasing requested load while your original tune seems to be increasing boost by increasing requested/optimal torque and by reducing or eliminating the effect of the ECU cutting boost during overboost.

These two approaches will yield similar boost levels but with, I would suspect, drastic differences in side effects. But what I think your problem comes down to is that Jude's is a work in progress while your original tune likely has tens (hundreds?) of hours invested by professional tuner(s?) with small fixes over time for customers. It's more polished.

My 2 cents.
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agentsmith988
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« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2011, 11:41:19 PM »

My understanding was that M-box tunes could be flashed on to T-boxes, but that T-box tunes couldn't be flashed (without modification) to other boxes.

I didn't mean any disrespect at all, really. I was only suggesting an idea that might help improve the tune. I'm really new to all of this so I probably come off as a little bit of an idiot at times. Smiley

It's only recently that I've been able to even tell that the tune that came on my car wasn't the original programming. Even so, I hope that file at least gave some good ideas for future tunes (wherever it came from).

And yes, I've been getting boost cut. During WOT in the upper RPM range, it cuts boost down to 5 lbs until I restart the car. And I just have a negative boost deviation code stored (no CEL).

I'll keep reading and tinkering, and hopefully soon I'll be able to help out a little bit more than just running logs!
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2011, 12:52:46 AM »

I guess we just proved your understanding about M vs T box since I was unable to use your T-box file. It was easy enough to copy over the maps though. I did drive that tune today and it felt pretty weak in comparison to what I've been running. I'm not certain why though.

I didn't mean any disrespect at all, really. I was only suggesting an idea that might help improve the tune. I'm really new to all of this so I probably come off as a little bit of an idiot at times. Smiley
None taken. I didn't intend any remarks to lead you to believe that I had. I'm new to this as well so we're both learning as we go. My comments were an attempt to explain how I see the difference between the two tunes and why one is causing problems while the other isn't.

I think your M file and the one in the other thread I linked to definitely give some ideas. I've been reading this site, nyet's, etc. since I bought my S4 last August and had never seen a tune approached in that manner before. It is a very different approach to tuning that is advocated on the sites I listed. That's actually why I took the time to copy it into a M-box file and post it; so that I and others could see what was done and how it behaves in comparison.

And yes, I've been getting boost cut. During WOT in the upper RPM range, it cuts boost down to 5 lbs until I restart the car. And I just have a negative boost deviation code stored (no CEL).
Here's hoping jude can work that out for you. I'll see if I can get some time this weekend to run his tune and get some logs.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:50:56 AM by Tony@NefMoto » Logged
judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2011, 07:17:49 AM »

Thanks, I'll be looking forward to those logs. I want to get this ironed out soon, rev 4 has a date with the dyno after a few more tweaks. That knock control thread has me thinking...
How is your tune coming elementalvoid? I'm looking forward to giving it a go.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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