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ddillenger
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2013, 10:13:49 AM »
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Only if we can also talk about removing every other injector to save on gas.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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TCSTigersClaw
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »
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I would also like to know. I have removed everything that the FIA aproved Rally Ibiza Cupra has on its 20vt or Cupra D model.
I am without n249 n112 and SAI for 3 years now .
For guys like me that are racing in Circuit or sprint ,it should be useful to know
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VAG cars newbie tuner  |
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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2013, 01:01:32 AM »
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Hey guys, not everyone is running a standard setup. Since when is this the place to push the idea we shouldnt mess with things? This threads responses are for the most part pretty lame. I don't run a n249, do you want to talk crap on me and or my setup and tell me my turbo is gonna fail?  |
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cartoons?
6A 61 72 65 64 40 76 6C 6D 73 70 65 63
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phila_dot
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2013, 02:55:22 AM »
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No one is saying that your turbo is going to fail, but your allowing more stress on the turbo for no reason by deleting the N249.
Why delete it?
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prj
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2013, 03:10:36 AM »
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Hey guys, not everyone is running a standard setup. Since when is this the place to push the idea we shouldnt mess with things? This threads responses are for the most part pretty lame. I don't run a n249, do you want to talk crap on me and or my setup and tell me my turbo is gonna fail? Because removing the N249 is akin to taking a hammer to your turbo's compressor wheel. It's your turbo and you have a right to take a hammer to it, but when you go on a forum and start advocating it of course you are going to get negative replies. |
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carsey
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2013, 06:50:03 AM »
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Because removing the N249 is akin to taking a hammer to your turbo's compressor wheel.
It's your turbo and you have a right to take a hammer to it, but when you go on a forum and start advocating it of course you are going to get negative replies.
Almost everyone over here runs no N249 and has no ill effects. |
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karrann
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 07:51:17 AM »
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Almost everyone over here runs no N249 and has no ill effects.
Thats what confused me lol. Every one that deleted it has no bad effects after running for extended periods of time, and the theory with the turbo compressor fighting resistance makes sence but it seems like there is no real world data to support it. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 07:55:45 AM »
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Because removing the N249 is akin to taking a hammer to your turbo's compressor wheel.
It's your turbo and you have a right to take a hammer to it, but when you go on a forum and start advocating it of course you are going to get negative replies.
Oh come on now. There is nothing wrong with running without the N249 and routing it to manifold vacuum instead. This is just getting silly. |
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prj
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 09:17:06 AM »
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Almost everyone over here runs no N249 and has no ill effects. Speak for yourself. The moment you stop being sheep and start thinking for yourself is the moment you start getting anywhere in life. Oh come on now. There is nothing wrong with running without the N249 and routing it to manifold vacuum instead. This is just getting silly.
Yes there is, the N249 is there for a reason - Audi went to using stiffer springs on the diverter valves at the same time as they implemented electronic dump valve control. Running no N249 shortens turbo life, period. If you don't care about this, then go for it. Your manifold vacuum is not sufficient to open the diverter with a stiff spring on transient load where the turbo spends the majority of it's life. Especially not the 710N. This can be easily seen from logs and heavy pressure spikes with the N249 removed. You can also remove the dump valve altogether. It's not like your turbo is going to fail over night, but it's life span will be affected. |
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 09:20:05 AM by prj »
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ddillenger
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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 09:23:19 AM »
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I love the "everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I?" approach. Even if there is only a CHANCE of a reduced turbo life, why chance it? There are cons to removing it, but none to keeping it.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
Email>PM
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prj
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2013, 09:27:25 AM »
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Also, forgot to mention on lower loads keeping the dump valves open also reduces the amount of throttling that has to be done when no boost is requested, thus somewhat improving fuel consumption. This is especially true when using stiff spring diverters.
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2013, 09:35:58 AM »
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Your manifold vacuum is not sufficient to open the diverter with a stiff spring on transient load where the turbo spends the majority of it's life. Especially not the 710N.
This can be easily seen from logs and heavy pressure spikes with the N249 removed.
You can also remove the dump valve altogether. It's not like your turbo is going to fail over night, but it's life span will be affected.
Maybe it's a diaphragm DV type issue then, I never seen any spikes in my logs with my piston style DV's to be honest. |
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prj
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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2013, 11:49:42 AM »
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Maybe it's a diaphragm DV type issue then, I never seen any spikes in my logs with my piston style DV's to be honest.
Go on, post a log lifting off the throttle in the midrange. I don't mean at 6000+ rpm where the intake vacuum is enough to open it instantly. Does not matter diaphragm or piston, if your spring is too weak it will push them open coming on boost (especially the way most piston valves are mounted with the boost pushing on the piston). N249 is effective in the normal operation area at lower loads, not in high rpm scenarios. Hell, you can see the boost climbing until the N249 kicks in when lifting off throttle with it fitted, without it, there is a massive spike. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2013, 12:33:10 PM »
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Go on, post a log lifting off the throttle in the midrange.
I don't mean at 6000+ rpm where the intake vacuum is enough to open it instantly.
Does not matter diaphragm or piston, if your spring is too weak it will push them open coming on boost (especially the way most piston valves are mounted with the boost pushing on the piston).
N249 is effective in the normal operation area at lower loads, not in high rpm scenarios. Hell, you can see the boost climbing until the N249 kicks in when lifting off throttle with it fitted, without it, there is a massive spike.
here you go... there's a 200mbar increase and that is it... that isn't what I would call massive nor will it do any damage to the turbo(s) IMO. But I guess if you can prove otherwise I'm all ears.  That said, I'm not saying everyone should bypass the N249... I probably wouldn't do it again, since well meh why not keep it. But I wouldn't go as far as saying you will wreck your turbos if you do remove/bypass it. |
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:35:34 PM by NOTORIOUS VR »
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prj
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2013, 12:44:25 PM »
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It's not a 0.2 bar spike, you are looking at it the wrong way.
Throttle plate is completely shut (3-13) deg and there is still 0.6-0.7 bar boost pressure before the throttle plate.
The turbos are experiencing compressor surge at this point. Look at the compressor map and see what happens to the surge line as flow is approaching 0.
Your logs illustrate exactly what I was saying. In fact your turbos are experiencing compressor surge for half a second each and every time you lift off the throttle in the lower revs, because your dump valves do not open at this point, might as well not be there at all.
I also never said "you are going to wreck your turbos".
I said - it will reduce their service life - what is so hard to understand?
The same way that removing the dump valves altogether is not going to wreck your turbos, it is also going to reduce their service life.
So - again, why would you remove the N249?
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:48:48 PM by prj »
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