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Author Topic: Xylene as Octane boost??  (Read 22799 times)
A6_C5_Allroad
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2014, 01:06:50 AM »

I found another document with info on calculating Octane and the use of lubricating oils, such as Auto-trans fluid. 
Maybe some with find it useful.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 08:18:41 AM »

Yeah spreadsheet says to use Natural (non-synthetic) transmission fluid or Marvel Mystery Oil for lubrication.
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2014, 08:57:07 AM »

I feel its important to ad that every single time I have had a customer use xylene it has caused chalky white buildup in their lines and filters.  I have seen it block up fuel pumps.  I have never seen this with toluene.  This could be something reacting with our pump fuel, but for me its why I suggest to only play with toluene.  I have never added any lubricant to mine unless I was running it pure.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2014, 11:43:44 AM »

I feel its important to ad that every single time I have had a customer use xylene it has caused chalky white buildup in their lines and filters.  I have seen it block up fuel pumps.  I have never seen this with toluene.  This could be something reacting with our pump fuel, but for me its why I suggest to only play with toluene.  I have never added any lubricant to mine unless I was running it pure.

Snow Trooper, what part of the country are you located that could play a factor.
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2014, 11:49:58 AM »

Snow Trooper, what part of the country are you located that could play a factor.

I have seen this in WA, CA, NV, OR and AZ

I have had others tell me of it happening all over.  It forms this pasty white buildup, especially in filters.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2014, 01:18:53 PM »

Well that's a good thing to know.

I was told by old timers that the days of pure gas not this up to 10% ethanol were the better days for fuels and cars period.
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A6_C5_Allroad
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2014, 02:50:38 PM »

I feel its important to ad that every single time I have had a customer use xylene it has caused chalky white buildup in their lines and filters.  I have seen it block up fuel pumps.  I have never seen this with toluene.  This could be something reacting with our pump fuel, but for me its why I suggest to only play with toluene.  I have never added any lubricant to mine unless I was running it pure.

I remember hearing this, too.  The way I heard it explained, was that there is some kind of chemical reaction, unique to the gas in the west, that caused some type of clogging buildup.  But, Snowtrooper is correct, Toluene is best since normal pump gas usually contains a fair amount of toluene to  begin with.
I'll go with the Toluene and forgo the synthetic lubrication altogether.  I'm mixing up 10 gallons today...shooting for 93-94 octane.
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2014, 03:36:57 PM »

Half and half with a pump fuel of 91-93 oct is great.  You can run 12-15 degrees more timing and see zero corrections.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2014, 04:32:57 PM »

So you say do a 50/50 of 91 or 93oct? or 87 and 50/50 mix. I'm confused what your saying completely.

On a side note. Wawa's gets 92 octane. Its like where do they decide that ok, here's 92 when everyone else supplies 93 here in FL. I mean 7-11's here have all sorts at some stations, I'm told its a mixing process that goes on and makes different grades. But yea I have seen pumps in Orlando that have 87/89/91/93/94 all on one pump.

And a few stations now have 90 octane non-ethonal fuels @$4.xx a gallon (my father uses this in his 92 yamaha motorcycle). My friends stock B6 A4 1.8T did not like it all. He always runs 93. Down in tampa you can get 100/101 octane of course but I'm an hour away in the country so no race fuels for me.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 04:36:42 PM by AudiMan85 » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2014, 10:01:18 PM »

I was saying up to a 50/50 mix, half toluene and half pump premium of 91 through 93 octane yields excellent race gas style results.  Even one gallon to a whole tank has benefits.  Any more than half and half you must start adding lubricants.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2014, 10:26:56 PM »

Have you ever used 87 octane to make 94/94 I'm gonna run the number from my local gas prices and try to find out a local toluene supply and price to see if its worth it to even bother since in the end it ain't really big difference.

Local prices 87-$3.49 89-$ 3.69 93-$3.89

Also, why do you think the ethanol-free 90 octane made my friends stock car drive so funny. He doesn't have any codes we checked. Never logged it but he said he has ran 87 and 89 before when low on cash and never had the bucking and hesitation is it cause the never cars are expecting to be ethanol and they tune the ecu for it? Also my last car (1998 Eclipse GSX - stock modded ecu) would grade the gas and give the car a octane rating to adjust the ecu to. I'm guessing it was just the knock sensor suggestion to the ecu that it should pull timing and in change the ecu told me in logs that the fuel octane was Low or High basically.

Also someone said. That its ok to run a 93 octane file on low grade gas since the ecu in the Audi would adjust for it when it seen knock. Is this theory correct. I know it will pull timing, but should you not do that. I know the car will be slower or what not but is it a "Safe" idea when strapped for cash or like down here in FL you run into a few 87 octane only gas stations. I'd love to have a selectable Mapping option on the stock ecu without a APR price tag or having to carry the laptop and put on a modded file (SAI removed, Left foot braking etc) that was also for 87 octane just incase.
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A6_C5_Allroad
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« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2014, 02:09:49 AM »

Have you ever used 87 octane to make 94/94 I'm gonna run the number from my local gas prices and try to find out a local toluene supply and price to see if its worth it to even bother since in the end it ain't really big difference.

Local prices 87-$3.49 89-$ 3.69 93-$3.89

Also, why do you think the ethanol-free 90 octane made my friends stock car drive so funny. He doesn't have any codes we checked. Never logged it but he said he has ran 87 and 89 before when low on cash and never had the bucking and hesitation is it cause the never cars are expecting to be ethanol and they tune the ecu for it? Also my last car (1998 Eclipse GSX - stock modded ecu) would grade the gas and give the car a octane rating to adjust the ecu to. I'm guessing it was just the knock sensor suggestion to the ecu that it should pull timing and in change the ecu told me in logs that the fuel octane was Low or High basically.

Also someone said. That its ok to run a 93 octane file on low grade gas since the ecu in the Audi would adjust for it when it seen knock. Is this theory correct. I know it will pull timing, but should you not do that. I know the car will be slower or what not but is it a "Safe" idea when strapped for cash or like down here in FL you run into a few 87 octane only gas stations. I'd love to have a selectable Mapping option on the stock ecu without a APR price tag or having to carry the laptop and put on a modded file (SAI removed, Left foot braking etc) that was also for 87 octane just incase.

I would think that using 87 octane wouldn't be very cost effective, considering that you would have to use much more Toluene at a cost of whatever they charge for it in Florida ( $10/gallon can??) to make up the starting point difference between 87 vs 93 octane. .40 cents difference between the two would cost you $7 more / tankful at the pump, but you'll spend 3 times that in toluene just to bring the 87 octane up to the 93 octane.   

Do I make a valid point, or am I missing something in your question??
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2014, 02:19:45 AM »

No you do. I had no clue what the prices are for that stuff. I figured .40 and gonna matter aways. What about the other questions I asked above.
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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2014, 09:05:05 AM »

You shouldn't run lower octane and expect the car to compensate, you end up having to dump more fuel anyway and so the savings is negated.  When I have come accross owners that do this, usually running 85 or 87 they knock like crazy, engine is a little hurt.  A lot of stage 1,2 and 3 files are already high single digit correction factors so the low octane puts it well over the edge.

In regards to doing the toluene mix with lesser pump fuels, as the cost analysis above points out, its a waste, additionally starting with the best pump gas available will give you the best additives, usually.

On your question about the ethanol free 90 octane, who knows.  Lots of variables there.  Did you guys check fuel trime?  Stock vehicles do not expect ethanol, so it can certainly handle it if the rest of the system is working right.
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2014, 12:19:52 PM »

No, didn't log. He just used it as a test. Was on like dead empty (he pushes the 0 miles to empty to about 15 miles past 0 miles) and put it in. Not a lot just a test. I told him to pull battery cables and touch them together and see if that got his fuel trims reset and see if that helped. But he had already used it all up by the time he told me and I answered back and he put 93 back in.

And gotcha on the lower octane fuels and making it higher with additives. I'm running NVR 2++ but my car got stinky (sulfur) smell when I added in the modified timing maps. I use that file but with added things I like or needed and cause of my setup like SAI removed but left the stock timing maps. My car didn't seem to like it that much with the added timing and the higher boost. I am running copper 1 degree cooler plugs and just changed them 2k ago but flashed back to stock timing maps before I ever logged. Wonder if it wanted something a little higher octane then 93. I can test again and log when I use up this tank. Its also my DD and I have to drive wife to work 50 miles each day so I can't always be messing around with files and logging so I do it on her days off, just in case I mess up a flash and need to boot mode it or whatever I don't have the time to do all that. My friend is building me a bench flashing power supply so maybe I'll have that soon enough for faster boot mode and flashing process.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 12:26:00 PM by AudiMan85 » Logged

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