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Author Topic: possible to use me7.1 s4 ecu for 12v vrt?  (Read 14147 times)
_nameless
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« on: May 11, 2014, 06:17:57 PM »

my friend has a 530 whp built vrt tuned by c2 turbo is controlled by a manual boot controller and only has maf as input... c2 has it set up that if the maf is unplugged the car wont even run it will star t and shut down like immo is active... My thought is if converted to a s4 based ecu it will have a map input along with maf input... any thoughts on troubles that id have to overcome timing (cam sensors) etc, Ignition (most likely go with fsi coilpacks), can I just add the missing hardwae (N75, map, etc)... just a thought I plugged it in and throttle moves to atleast part of the hardware is correct... just a thought might be stupid but possibly not? Huh 
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 07:39:32 PM »

That's pretty interesting..I know they probably both have 60-2 trigger wheels but I wonder if everything else would work? Essentially cheap standalone.
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2014, 08:01:36 PM »

That's pretty interesting..I know they probably both have 60-2 trigger wheels but I wonder if everything else would work? Essentially cheap standalone.
Right my thoughts exactly! Just waiting on input from the nefmoto gods....
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_nameless
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 08:27:55 PM »

All the hardware for the most art looks the same, but each one has one difference that I noticed. I'm asumeing that the extra on the s4 is for the n75 but what about the vr6 ecu?
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zillarob
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 10:16:20 PM »

If there is enough hardware in the ecu to run an s4, should be plenty to run a vr6.

Some smart people here may know how to change the code to suit, but I think you will need to look at the 2.7 and vr6 mechanical base settings and work from there.

Figure out the crank trigger offsets. Not sure on the vr6, but looks like the 2.7 trigger lines up with cyl3 tdc.

You need to match the inj and coil that the ecu is firing, to the ones on the vr6 that want to be fired.

Like I said, I dont know on the vr6 so lets assume it also lines up with cyl3 for this example. VAG and Bosch are generally good at keeping things consistent, you may even get really lucky and both the crank and cam offsets are already the same.

2.7 firing order is 1 4 3 6 2 5 and vr6 looks to be 1 5 3 6 2 4.

Would end up with this (s4 ecu/vr6 cyl) 1/1 4/5 3/3 6/6 2/2 5/4 for the inj and coils.

Next would be figuring out a cam sensor, need at least 1 for the ecu to let it run.
If you are confident the cam timing is on, you could adjust it mechanically until the ecu says 0 and lock it down there.

S4 ecu is a 2 bank system so look into the single turbo stuff for the o2 sensors (and egts?).

Use whatever you need that the ecu offers, and code the rest out.
Tune it for da horsepowerzzzz!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:02:34 PM by zillarob » Logged
vwaudiguy
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 09:36:48 AM »

If there is enough hardware in the ecu to run an s4, should be plenty to run a vr6.

Some smart people here may know how to change the code to suit, but I think you will need to look at the 2.7 and vr6 mechanical base settings and work from there.

Figure out the crank trigger offsets. Not sure on the vr6, but looks like the 2.7 trigger lines up with cyl2 tdc.

You need to match the inj and coil that the ecu is firing, to the ones on the vr6 that want to be fired.

Like I said, I dont know on the vr6 so lets assume it also lines up with cyl2 for this example. VAG and Bosch are generally good at keeping things consistent, you may even get really lucky and both the crank and cam offsets are already the same.

2.7 firing order is 1 4 3 6 2 5 and vr6 looks to be 1 5 3 6 2 4.

Would end up with this (s4 ecu/vr6 cyl) 1/1 4/5 3/3 6/6 2/2 5/4 for the inj and coils.

Next would be figuring out a cam sensor, need at least 1 for the ecu to let it run.
If you are confident the cam timing is on, you could adjust it mechanically until the ecu says 0 and lock it down there.

S4 ecu is a 2 bank system so look into the single turbo stuff for the o2 sensors (and egts?).

Use whatever you need that the ecu offers, and code the rest out.
Tune it for da horsepowerzzzz!

Sounds like a piece of cake!
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_nameless
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 01:20:53 PM »

single o2 conversion is covered in the wiki change fire order seems easy enough...I dont expect it to be plug and play but im going to attempt it. Just picked up a harness outa a 200 a6 so lay over and use... see how it goes
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ddillenger
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 01:48:01 PM »

If you're going to go through all this trouble, I'd rather get wideband out of it than a charge pressure sensor.

That, and this is being very oversimplified. I just don't see it working well at all. Be interesting though. I will follow the thread, assist where possible.
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zillarob
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 05:15:27 PM »

Lol, Im down with the mad scientist stuff and dont think this would very difficult at all to get running, but I would def pay attention to what Daz has to say!

We run a 12v vrt on vipec back home. I should have a file on my lappy so will see if I can find the trigger offsets in there.

You have any pics of the crank and cam wheels to see if they are similar to the s4?
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_nameless
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 05:43:43 PM »

Lol, Im down with the mad scientist stuff and dont think this would very difficult at all to get running, but I would def pay attention to what Daz has to say!

We run a 12v vrt on vipec back home. I should have a file on my lappy so will see if I can find the trigger offsets in there.

You have any pics of the crank and cam wheels to see if they are similar to the s4?
found these online im not in front of the car at the moment but should be the same
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zillarob
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 06:59:18 PM »

The crank is a 60-2 so good there.
The cam is a dif style so will need some work.
This is bank 1 on a 2.7 with the crank pin in (cyl3 tdc). The black line is where the pickup would be.




These are the numbers I found in the vipec file they are using back home. I wasnt there when they setup the ecu, but almost pos they are still running the stock triggers/pickups.




I think the window is lined up with the sensor on the s4 (cyl3 tdc so -240 btdc), thats how I always remember how to line up the fw anyway.
I will def get down and dirty checking this out in a few weeks when I am putting the car I am working on now back together.
If that offset is dif, prob have to adjust it mechanically. No idea what it would take to change it in the ecu, if even pos.

I didnt see the cam numbers in the file. I think it was an old one from when they had too small of inj to run sequential so they werent using it.
Should be easy enough to build one and line up the trailing edge of the wheel with the pickup at cyl3 tdc.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:05:05 PM by zillarob » Logged
_nameless
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 07:29:04 PM »

thanks for all the info man! helps out a lot and points me in the right direction!
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 08:45:17 AM »

I second Daz's comment about having wiseband  Grin capability..Still super interesting though.
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ported2flow
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 02:03:14 PM »

zillarob has already pointed you in the right direction...

as far as i know the 2.7T engines have a 2 point cam system instead of the vvt on the vr6
so you have to set up the firing order and the lambda control basically
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cerips
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2014, 01:48:12 PM »

You realise the S4 has a 90 degree bank angle and the VR6 has a 15 degree bank angle so you'll have to account for that with the ignition timing.
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