Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: RS4/551R Base boost pressure maps plgrus_w and how to properly calibrate the PID  (Read 23577 times)
ddillenger
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +641/-21
Offline Offline

Posts: 5640



In both the 551R allroad ME7.1.1, and RS4 binaries KFMLDIMX is perfectly linear. I'd like to talk about how to properly tune the PID. I've read about the "base boost pressure" maps (plgrus_w), and that DIMX is calibrated differently, but I don't quite understand HOW it works.

Thanks, as always.



Logged

Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!

Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com

Email>PM
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763



In both the 551R allroad ME7.1.1, and RS4 binaries KFMLDIMX is perfectly linear. I'd like to talk about how to properly tune the PID. I've read about the "base boost pressure" maps (plgrus_w), and that DIMX is calibrated differently, but I don't quite understand HOW it works.

Thanks, as always.





it is my understanding that you want to get WGDC as close as possible to where you need it first.

After that, tune for P, then D, and then I.  

You want the PID to have to do as little as possible.

I found a webinar vid on youtube from Motec Australia. http://youtu.be/SefKQb9y_B4  If you can sit through it (47 minutes worth of PID tuning logic), I'm sure it will help, not only does it explain how to properly tune PIDs, it explains why you should do it the way that is explained. It's very "in depth" and the guy recommends watching the first webinar on PIDs if you don't understand some of the things he talks about. Boost and idle PIDs are used as examples in addition to a few other real world scenarios, so its pretty easy to relate to what the guy explains.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:44:31 AM by userpike » Logged
ddillenger
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +641/-21
Offline Offline

Posts: 5640



it is my understanding that you want to get WGDC as close as possible to where you need it first.

After that, tune for P, then D, and then I.  

You want the PID to have to do as little as possible.

I found a webinar vid on youtube from Motec Australia. http://youtu.be/SefKQb9y_B4  If you can sit through it (47 minutes worth of PID tuning logic), I'm sure it will help, not only does it explain how to properly tune PIDs, it explains why you should do it the way that is explained. It's very "in depth" and the guy recommends watching the first webinar on PIDs if you don't understand some of the things he talks about. Boost and idle PIDs are used as examples in addition to a few other real world scenarios, so its pretty easy to relate to what the guy explains.

I'm aware of how to tune the PID Tongue

But this doesn't work the same way.
Logged

Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!

Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com

Email>PM
erroob0977
Full Member
***

Karma: +12/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 66



I'm running the 4z7907551R me7.1.1 ecu & my process of tuning the PID was a little different then how people are tuning the S4 M-box ecus. I'm not saying that my way is the best way to do it or even the correct way, but I've had good results. It's been a while since I did this so hopefully I'm not leaving anything out here.

First thing I did was to set KFLDRL to 0 in all cells and get a 3rd gear log of my "base boost pressure" with 0% WGDC. I used that data to fill in the last column of KFVPLGU, and then adjusted the rest of the map to keep the same shape as stock but increased for my new wastegates (15-16 psi). With it set up this way, the ECU knows to control boost under the wastegate pressure with the throttle plate (no need to change the vpssplg_w axis for KFVPDKSD/E). I believe I did a little logging here and scaled the whole KFVPLGU up or down a little bit, I don't really remember anymore.

Here's my KFVPLGU. Wastegates were set to 15 psi on the bench, boost on wastegate pressure peaks around 16.7 psi and tapers to just above 15 psi by redline. I set all the rpm rows before I hit my peak boost to the same value, I'm not sure if I was correct in doing that.. but I haven't noticed any ill effects.


I then went and got logs at 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, & 70 %WGDC, and used that to make my KFLDRL map like you normally would.

Due to the KFVPLGU changes, the KFLDIMX plsolr_w axis is now essentially the difference between requested boost & my wastegate pressure (plgrus_w). After dialing it in, it tells the ecu how much duty cycle is required to make [plsolr_w] mbar over the wastegate pressure. My KFLDIMX didn't stay linear like it was stock, I think audi must have calibrated KFLDRL so that it would arrive at the right WGDC given the linear KFLDIMX output.





After that point dialing in the rest of the PID was the same.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:35:14 AM by erroob0977 » Logged

2004 A6 2.7T 6MT: Built motor with SRM RS6/K24s on E85
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12268


WWW

Thanks! That is a great explanation.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
phila_dot
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +173/-11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1709



On the S4, the axis for KFVPLGU is pssol_w and the output is a factor for pu_w.

On the RS4, the axis for KFVPLGU is pu_w and the output is mbar. The calibration takes RPM into account here instead of in KFLDIMX.

If you match the values with the pu_w axis you end up with the same function as in the S4 files.
Logged
Westfarmracing
Full Member
***

Karma: +3/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 110



This is genius if it works! Will try to set base-boost on my rs4 with 16psi actuators and report back  Smiley
Logged
stuklr
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 147



So, let me get this straight,

I would leave the DRL the way I usually tune it, but set the axis of IMX to the amount of boost I want above base pressure, GLU. For instance If I have a base boost of 1000 mBar and I want 1600, my IMX axis should be set for 700 in the last column and set that column to the duty cycle required to get that pressure above base gate pressure. I then can get the values for IMX from the logging done to create the DRL map directly with fixed duty cycles.

Will It matter if the map limit is exceeded? Or will it act like the M box and run open loop and follow my IMX values now?
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12268


WWW

On the S4, the axis for KFVPLGU is pssol_w and the output is a factor for pu_w.

On the RS4, the axis for KFVPLGU is pu_w and the output is mbar. The calibration takes RPM into account here instead of in KFLDIMX.

If you match the values with the pu_w axis you end up with the same function as in the S4 files.

Can you elaborate? In the FR, I see KFPLGUB/KFDPLGU, not KFVPLGU... and I don't have any of the three in any of my ME7.1 mappacks (including my RS4 kp).

To close the loop, we need to add the map/axis to all the defs ... Sad

ETA: in my G-box kp i see KFVPLGU at 11135, but it is all ones..
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 01:26:30 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
stuklr
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 147



Its in my 551R xdf that PRJ posted, Maybe only 7.1.1?
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12268


WWW

Its in my 551R xdf that PRJ posted, Maybe only 7.1.1?

Like he said, it is a correction to pu_w in some files (e.g. S4 7.1)... in the g-box all ones means base boost is ambient (stock)

I'm fairly sure i'll find that they are all ones in the various non-RS4 ME7.1 variants. Time permitting i'll find it in Mbox.
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
phila_dot
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +173/-11
Offline Offline

Posts: 1709



KFVPLGU 0x11129 * 0.0078125

pssol_w SPS08LDUW 0x156AE * 0.0390625

nmot_w SNM08LDUW 0x12AB6 * 0.25

Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12268


WWW

Thank you, as usual, phila!
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
stuklr
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 147



KFVPLGU 0x11129 * 0.0078125

pssol_w SPS08LDUW 0x156AE * 0.0390625

nmot_w SNM08LDUW 0x12AB6 * 0.25



Excellent, Added to my def. Thanks!
Logged
nyet
Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +607/-168
Online Online

Posts: 12268


WWW

pssol_w SPS08LDUW 0x156AE * 0.0390625

While this correlates well with my fully defined G-box, the pssol_w axis values look odd... they are 1.1719-9.3750..

that can't be pssol....
Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.025 seconds with 16 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0s, 0q)