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nyet
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« Reply #210 on: October 18, 2011, 11:58:12 PM »
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timing "looks" ok, but not great... seems like the load has shifted and now it's running more timing in the low/spool end and less up top towards redline... so I def need to fix that.
If you are riding the knock limit (and I think you are), from experience there are only a few ways to get more timing. 1) less boost 2) more fuel 3) cooler IATs 4) water injection 5) octane, octane, octane and the weirdest one 6) less timing Thats right. If your CFs are over 5 or 6, you might pick up a half a degree to a degree by PULLING requested timing. |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2011, 10:21:31 AM »
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Timing curve looks fine to me. It looks like your KFZW tables could possibly use some smoothing out though. Are you logging the different inputs to zwout to see what variable it is following?
I agree with everything Nyet said. I think you would benefit by pulling a little timing to get those CF's in check until you can upgrade your air charge cooling. KR tends to overreact IMO.
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2011, 10:39:32 AM »
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I disagree with both of you that the timing curve looks fine/good.
Timing needs to go up quite a bit in the top end of things...
That said, Nyet what makes you think I am riding the knock limit?
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nyet
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« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2011, 11:05:38 AM »
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I disagree with both of you that the timing curve looks fine/good.
Timing needs to go up quite a bit in the top end of things...
Shrug. The list I posted is all there is, unless you are ready to numb the KR system. That said, Nyet what makes you think I am riding the knock limit?
Your CFs are non-zero. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #214 on: October 19, 2011, 11:13:23 AM »
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Shrug. The list I posted is all there is, unless you are ready to numb the KR system.
That is besides the point... the timing is too low in the top end. You NEED ign advance to rise in the top end. Your CFs are non-zero.
You truly believe that CF's are only related to knock? I don't. Although I haven't really looked into it much (ok not at all really to the point of checking the FR), I'm of the opinion from some experiences that CF's can/will come down when you play with other variables in the ECU (like TQ mgmt). Has it been looked into that CF's are showing only knock retard and that no other ECU compensations would show in the Correction Factors tables/output? |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #215 on: October 19, 2011, 12:13:39 PM »
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Shrug. The list I posted is all there is, unless you are ready to numb the KR system.
That is besides the point... the timing is too low in the top end. You NEED ign advance to rise in the top end. Your CFs are non-zero.
You truly believe that CF's are only related to knock? I don't. Although I haven't really looked into it much (ok not at all really to the point of checking the FR), I'm of the opinion from some experiences that CF's can/will come down when you play with other variables in the ECU (like TQ mgmt). Has it been looked into that CF's are showing only knock retard and that no other ECU compensations would show in the Correction Factors tables/output? You are correct that timing should rise in the top end. Timing should drop as load rises and rise as RPM increases. Hence the "curve". Torque management doesn't intervence through CF's. Torque management intervenes as ZWSOL in ZUE. DWKRZ basically only reflects knock intervention. KR also intervenes via WKRDY, but this is not reflected in DWKRZ(i). |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #216 on: October 19, 2011, 12:27:21 PM »
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Torque management doesn't intervence through CF's. Torque management intervenes as ZWSOL in ZUE.
DWKRZ basically only reflects knock intervention. KR also intervenes via WKRDY, but this is not reflected in DWKRZ(i).
Interesting... |
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nyet
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« Reply #217 on: October 19, 2011, 12:28:53 PM »
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Has it been looked into that CF's are showing only knock retard and that no other ECU compensations would show in the Correction Factors tables/output?
I am loathe to say I'm 100% confident in anything in ME, but i've logged almost the ENTIRE timing path, and I BELIEVE CF is ONLY from KR... and short term only! It doesn't include long term KR correction... IMO right now, the easiest way for you to get more timing is to add more fuel  try 11.0-11.5 or pull boost.. |
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 12:31:46 PM by nyet »
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phila_dot
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« Reply #218 on: October 19, 2011, 12:42:48 PM »
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Has it been looked into that CF's are showing only knock retard and that no other ECU compensations would show in the Correction Factors tables/output?
I am loathe to say I'm 100% confident in anything in ME, but i've logged almost the ENTIRE timing path, and I BELIEVE CF is ONLY from KR... and short term only! It doesn't include long term KR correction... IMO right now, the easiest way for you to get more timing is to add more fuel try 11.0-11.5 or pull boost.. wkra is included in dwkrz. I will be disabling kra and krldya when I redo my timing. Adaptation is only a hindrance while tuning. |
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Gonzo
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« Reply #219 on: October 19, 2011, 04:44:58 PM »
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nyet is right, more fuel, less timing or less boost will bring the CF down.
I would try more fuel (if possible) and pull timing a little bit and see how that goes.
You can't have moar boost and moar timing at the same time.
I'd say your timing needs some work.
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 04:47:47 PM by Gonzo »
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nyet
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« Reply #220 on: October 19, 2011, 04:47:27 PM »
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wkra is included in dwkrz.
Err. my mistake. I was thinking of wkrdy. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #221 on: October 20, 2011, 02:11:23 PM »
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nyet is right, more fuel, less timing or less boost will bring the CF down.
I would try more fuel (if possible) and pull timing a little bit and see how that goes.
You can't have moar boost and moar timing at the same time.
I'd say your timing needs some work.
Guys, you're clearly missing the fact that it's an incomplete tune.. I'm quite aware how to tune a motor... |
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nyet
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« Reply #224 on: October 24, 2011, 10:07:50 AM »
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You've got 0 CFs now!  Looking really good man. You can add a bit of timing back. Just get all the cylinders correcting (1-5 deg CF) and you're set! |
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