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Author Topic: My Tial 605 Tune Thread  (Read 280093 times)
berTTos
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« Reply #255 on: October 27, 2011, 05:08:55 PM »

i made an observation today on a 550mi road trip related to this Torque Monitoring2 - Control Limit Exceeded code. 

i began the drive on my aggressive file with Torque Monitoring disabled and i have to say, i enjoyed the car much more this way.  the throttle is sharp and i was able to pass with ~25% throttle in 6th without issue (with TM enabled this would sporadically cause the TM2-control limit exceeded code).
this file is pretty well sorted by now and everything from idle to WOT to throttle lift off is pretty smooth BUT - i know i need some MAF correction for some low load areas where MAF is reading too low.

i hit some traffic and had to slow down for some miles where i was cruising at very light load (10-25).  when i resumed normal speed (and load) i could tell i was running way rich and the throttle was a little crazy.  i pulled off and hooked up my netbook to check LTFTs which were +11% (!!!).  they are normally -2% or so.  i left the netbook hooked up and left 032, 033 and a group that shows load (dont recall #) and commenced normal 80mph cruise.  load was 35-60 depending on incline and STFTs showed major trimming.  STFTs stayed negative for quite a while and i watched LTFTs drop until they settled around -1%.  LTFTs stayed here for over an hour while load was >35.

this gave me the idea to load up my file with TM enabled so i pulled off and flashed it.  when i kept load around 40+ my fuel trims were close to zero and i had no problems with TM related throttle-cut.  if i slowed for a period and used light load this caused my trims to go way positive.  if i then suddenly increased load (to pass in 6th gear with 25-40% throttle) - bam - throttle-cut + EPC light with the TM code.

so - in my case - it seems that venturing into territory where MAF readings are accurate after lingering in a load area where they are low (which causes trims to go way positive) means too much fuel in the normal area and is related to exceeding Torque Control Limits.

so - does this make sense? does anyone have any insight?

i'm going to hook up the wideband and do MAF correction this weekend.
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nyet
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« Reply #256 on: October 27, 2011, 06:00:42 PM »

*req* lambda definitely affects "actual" torque. Not sure if trims somehow go into this calculation.

Other than that, I have no clue what's going on Sad
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berTTos
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« Reply #257 on: October 27, 2011, 06:20:06 PM »

*req* lambda definitely affects "actual" torque. Not sure if trims somehow go into this calculation.

Other than that, I have no clue what's going on Sad

i don't think trims are involved in the calcs but i do suspect that if trims are +11% when i dip into the throttle and increase load then actual lambda goes way lower than requested and this may influence the torque calculation.  maybe?
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phila_dot
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« Reply #258 on: October 27, 2011, 06:37:00 PM »

I'm pretty sure it is based off of lambas.
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nyet
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« Reply #259 on: October 27, 2011, 06:40:54 PM »

Oh, also, have you tried logging the appropriate torque values? i don't know them offhand.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
phila_dot
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« Reply #260 on: October 28, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »

i made an observation today on a 550mi road trip related to this Torque Monitoring2 - Control Limit Exceeded code. 

i began the drive on my aggressive file with Torque Monitoring disabled and i have to say, i enjoyed the car much more this way.  the throttle is sharp and i was able to pass with ~25% throttle in 6th without issue (with TM enabled this would sporadically cause the TM2-control limit exceeded code).
this file is pretty well sorted by now and everything from idle to WOT to throttle lift off is pretty smooth BUT - i know i need some MAF correction for some low load areas where MAF is reading too low.

i hit some traffic and had to slow down for some miles where i was cruising at very light load (10-25).  when i resumed normal speed (and load) i could tell i was running way rich and the throttle was a little crazy.  i pulled off and hooked up my netbook to check LTFTs which were +11% (!!!).  they are normally -2% or so.  i left the netbook hooked up and left 032, 033 and a group that shows load (dont recall #) and commenced normal 80mph cruise.  load was 35-60 depending on incline and STFTs showed major trimming.  STFTs stayed negative for quite a while and i watched LTFTs drop until they settled around -1%.  LTFTs stayed here for over an hour while load was >35.

this gave me the idea to load up my file with TM enabled so i pulled off and flashed it.  when i kept load around 40+ my fuel trims were close to zero and i had no problems with TM related throttle-cut.  if i slowed for a period and used light load this caused my trims to go way positive.  if i then suddenly increased load (to pass in 6th gear with 25-40% throttle) - bam - throttle-cut + EPC light with the TM code.

so - in my case - it seems that venturing into territory where MAF readings are accurate after lingering in a load area where they are low (which causes trims to go way positive) means too much fuel in the normal area and is related to exceeding Torque Control Limits.

so - does this make sense? does anyone have any insight?

i'm going to hook up the wideband and do MAF correction this weekend.

MDZUL states deactivation via KFMIZUOF can trigger a level 2 torque monitoring fault in UFMZUL and fuel switch off.
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berTTos
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« Reply #261 on: October 28, 2011, 04:12:41 PM »


MDZUL states deactivation via KFMIZUOF can trigger a level 2 torque monitoring fault in UFMZUL and fuel switch off.

i noticed this as well - though i struggled with the translation of the last part of the application note.  here is my translation --

A total deactivation of the function by the map KFMIZUOF can be carried out (KFMIZUOF = 99,6% for all data points). A deactivation of the afterstart extension can be achieved by data input into the maps KFDMINS and KLDMKH. In this case the map KFDMINS is filled with 0. The temperature thresholds TMNSMN and TANSMN are set to -48C. Deactivation of the function %mdzul (Maximum allowable torque) while Torque Monitoring is active can result in a Level 2 Torque Monitoring response (%ufmzul) with the error response SKA (Safety fuel cut-off condition)

i don't completely understand the last part and my german is not very good. it seems to state that if mdzul (which calculates maximum allowable torque) is disabled and Torque Monitoring is active - then a TM2 error may occur.  this makes no sense to me.

also - does the 2.7t have the maps KFDMINS and KLDMKH?
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berTTos
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« Reply #262 on: October 28, 2011, 04:19:00 PM »

Oh, also, have you tried logging the appropriate torque values? i don't know them offhand.

 i haven't logged shit.  i've been so crazy busy.
hopefully i'll have some time this weekend.  i'm planning on driving out to summit racing on saturday and my gf is going to help log MAF and fuel at various loads for MAF correction.  i'll see if i can get motivated and configure ME7L tonight.

i have a feeling my TM2 codes are related to lambda readings.  the FR notes that lambda and ignition angle influences actual torque calculations.
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nyet
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« Reply #263 on: October 28, 2011, 04:34:57 PM »

i have a feeling my TM2 codes are related to lambda readings.  the FR notes that lambda and ignition angle influences actual torque calculations.

I haven't checked the FR, but I dont' see any way it can know what the actual lambda is... it can only know req AFR....
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
berTTos
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« Reply #264 on: October 28, 2011, 05:02:28 PM »

I haven't checked the FR, but I dont' see any way it can know what the actual lambda is... it can only know req AFR....

you are correct, sir - i should have said 'basic lambda' - lambas.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #265 on: October 28, 2011, 06:11:14 PM »

berTTos, did you also increase KFZWOP?

I cannot find any benefit to increasing it.  What are you guys seeing that I'm not?
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berTTos
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« Reply #266 on: October 29, 2011, 02:52:12 AM »

berTTos, did you also increase KFZWOP?

I cannot find any benefit to increasing it.  What are you guys seeing that I'm not?

i do have a file where i increased it in the low end as i had timing increases in the corresponding areas where KFZW values exceeded KFZWOP values.  it made no difference either way for me as far as the TM2 code appearing.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #267 on: October 30, 2011, 08:32:41 PM »


I cannot find any benefit to increasing it.  What are you guys seeing that I'm not?
e85  Wink
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phila_dot
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« Reply #268 on: October 31, 2011, 08:40:10 AM »

Wow, so your KFZW(2) values are meeting or exceeding the stock KFZWOP(2) values?

The only applications I see for KFZWOP(2)'s output is in various forms of intervention (torque, charge, lambda, and ignition angle).
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #269 on: November 01, 2011, 03:21:25 AM »

going through this right now,
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,881.0.html
but yes i've gone over kfzop values, though i'm  not requesting 42*, seems that kfzwop is supplying those timing values while kfzw is saying 36.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 08:05:03 AM by judeisnotobscure » Logged

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