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Author Topic: stereo lambda vs mono lambda...  (Read 36879 times)
Snow Trooper
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« on: June 17, 2011, 10:03:21 AM »

Edit: issues for dual bank resolved, see post:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,722.msg6469.html#msg6469
______________________________________________________________________
ok, so here we go... I am at the point where I just need to ask for more help on this as I have not solved it with what I feel has been too much time spent in my life on it.

What I am trying to achieve is for my bank 1 sensor 1 to feed data to both banks in regards to fuel trims.  My car is a 2.7t single turbo conversion and i just run one o2 sensor (b1s1).

I have everything else deleted and I have found success in every other aspect of my tuning with the single on me7.1, yet this is a giant road block.  My tune has to stay fat because bank 2 does nothing as far as trims go.  when i log STFT or LTFT bank 2 is always at a consistent 0% and i really wish i could log individual injector on times because I am certain my bank 2 cylinders just dump fuel like when triggered by egts.  It also randomly TCs with no rhyme or reason.  Everything else is good so it must be this.

So now onto where i have been looking.  I started with this line of thought and hunting for ways to shut down the stereo control, from the Bosch documantation:

"FB LRAEB 4110 Functional Description
Notes stereo Lambda policy:
------------------------------------
- The following is FDEF f for a system with stereo lambda control designed.
- The stereo-Gro ¨ ¨ Anha must differ in lengths of 2 (eg B_lra -> B_lra2).
- The f FDEF is also fully suitable for a mono system. In this case, B_lr2
= FALSE. This also B_LRA2 = FALSE.
- For mono-Lambda control (SY_STERVK) = FALSE is set automatically B_lra2
= FALSE.
Description of the function LRAEB:
--------------------------------
- The function returns the switch-LRAEB of adaptations as well as the bit
"mixture adaptation locked" (B_gasp).
- Fu ¨ r Stereo are the switch-fu ¨ r separately, each bank (B_lra, B_lra2)."

and

"528 XXXXXXXX Flag register: DKVS Bank 1 Bits 16 FFh
SY_BDE = 0
Bit 0: = B_syserrk
Bit 1: = v E_frau E_rkat
Bit 2: = Z_frau Bit 3: = Z_rkat Bit 4: = B_lra Bit 5: Bit 6 = B_lrar =
B_rkat Bit 7: = B_frau
529 XXXXXXXX Flag register: DKVS Bank 2 Bits 16 FFh
SY_BDE = 0 & SY_STERVK = 1
Bit 0: = B_syserrk
Bit 1: = v E_frau2 E_rkat2
Bit 2: = Z_frau2
Bit 3: = Z_rkat2
Bit 4: = B_lra2
Bit 5: Bit 6 = B_lrar = B_rkat Bit 7: = B_frau"

So I thought that if I could find those addresses, based of the wording I could set B_lr2 and B_lra2 to false (FF, 00) to achieve a mono lambda system.  I ran this by some mainstream tuners who have said they have run single bank control on stuff like the R32 and they said that I am looking too far into it and that I can achieve this with variables within the map/scalars. 

So that leads me to my never ending revisions.  I have hunted through everything in the public files and tried everything that makes sense to me.  Also combinations.  I cannot bring life back to bank 2  Sad

I am positive I am misunderstanding something or overlooking it.  Does anyone here have any idea how to achieve what I am trying to do?  Are there variables that are unlisted in the m-box xdf?  I was under the impression that the current definition has every available map or scalar that exists within the 1024 mb file.

whew... hopefully I explained myself.  if I can ever get this locked down I will post up my files for all to do whatever with.

Thanks in advance for any assistance anyone can offer.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:28:31 PM by Snow Trooper » Logged

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kelesha
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 02:00:31 PM »

Seems your setup is serious, so i cant understand why you need lambda sensor at all ? If you disconnect last O2 sensor from your car i think you will solve all your problems Wink Without O2 sensors you even can have more better fuel economy Smiley
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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 05:07:37 PM »

with me7.1 dont I have to have some sort of o2 input to the ecu?  I run a wideband for tuning purposes yet nothing is so perfect that the ecu would never want a signal, or is it?

I was not aware no 02s were possible.  i mean doesnt it have to adapt to some extent no matter what?

I could just turn of 02 control, that seems kinda scary though considering I have no egts either.
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 05:47:01 PM »

Are there variables that are unlisted in the m-box xdf?

Heh. Yea. Thousands :/
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ME7.1 tuning guide
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Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
Snow Trooper
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 07:28:48 PM »

Are there variables that are unlisted in the m-box xdf?

Heh. Yea. Thousands :/

okay, lol... wishful thinking i guess and i should have known better.
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kelesha
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 11:24:18 PM »

with me7.1 dont I have to have some sort of o2 input to the ecu?
 
Yes for stock car with two or four cats you need O2 sensors, but for extremly tuned car you can remove them without problem

I could just turn of 02 control, that seems kinda scary though considering I have no egts either.
Hmmm how and why you link O2 control and EGTs ?
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Mantis
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 07:17:26 AM »

Unfortunately I have nothing to add to the discussion

But I am watching closely, as my single project should be ready for tuning in the next 3-4 weeks

My worry is that without any O2's, do you become a slave to your environment, I mean if you tune at a given altitude, does me7 adapt fast enough without O2 voltages to travel through mountain ranges
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DJGonzo
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 10:26:09 AM »

I doubt it will adapt at all without the O2 sensors but you are more than welcome to try it...
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Mantis
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 02:11:50 PM »

No thanks, not looking to sacrifice a built motor for the cause
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DJGonzo
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 03:32:58 PM »

If you want a single O2 sensor you may have to use 24v N/A SW (that's if they don't have 2 oxygen sensors as well  Grin)

Maybe a patch in the executable code may help you on this but it seems like a lot of work.
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Mantis
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 05:32:12 PM »

Thanks, it really does seem like a bunch of work for minimal payback.  I may have to stick with a Haltech passthrough system in order to retain the safety margin I am looking for
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ElementalVoid
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 07:30:49 PM »

If any of you guys would be willing to explain the reason to go with single over dual O2 sensors I'd appreciate it. I'm at a loss as to why you would want to do that at all.

Thanks.
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Jason
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Breaks everything!


« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 07:57:33 PM »

Because with a single turbo there's only one downpipe?

What about using a loop splitter to split the output of the one sensor into two isolated signals?
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Snow Trooper
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 10:50:37 PM »

I think the two isolated signals would cause the same issues as two primary o2s in the same pipe.

kelesha, i attribute the loss of the last o2s as the last true way for the ecu to even guess at egt and dump fuel in a panic situation.  am I incorrect in this?
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matchew
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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 08:29:54 AM »

Do you have any way of comparing Bank1 vs Bank2 injection?
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