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Author Topic: med9 bench harness  (Read 18078 times)
bamofo
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2022, 12:34:46 PM »

Yeah I'll ask in the forum, suspect I'll just get the 'use the official harness' answer

you will for sure i believe you need like a power cube or some crap. i almost bought that module till i saw that. :-p Flex works for me.
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azxuts
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2022, 08:34:31 AM »

Dont mix things here.

Back in the days Bench was OBD on the Table.

Today, and what your pictures show, is the Bosch Service Mode with the S1/S2 Signal going into the ecu.

What exactly is service mode? I see some commercial tools exploit it but I'd love to know what exactly the signal/specification is like.
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_nameless
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2022, 08:43:26 AM »

What exactly is service mode? I see some commercial tools exploit it but I'd love to know what exactly the signal/specification is like.
Bench read and write ecu full contents without having to open the ecu. For example EDC16u31 is BDM normally and requires to be open well with service mode no need to open the ecu
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_nameless
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2022, 08:58:01 AM »

this is what i use with ksuite
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d3irb
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2022, 11:00:10 AM »

What exactly is service mode? I see some commercial tools exploit it but I'd love to know what exactly the signal/specification is like.

Without getting into the software vulnerabilities:

Overall Bosch Service Mode / TSW is similar to the Continental TSW which I have documented, except it uses KWP2000 instead of a custom command-set over ISO-TP. It's kind of odd, it's almost like the two vendors received the same loose specification and then decided to use it in two dramatically different ways.

The break-in process is two PWM/square-wave signals applied to the so-called "S1 and S2" pins. This tells the ECU to boot into a command shell using KWP2000 over serial. On many CAN ECUs the serial runs through the CAN transceiver before it gets to the external pins, so you need to wire a UART into a CAN transceiver (yes, this works!) to use it.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=18870.0

So in terms of hardware, yes, you don't just need two voltages on S1 and S2, you need specific frequencies. And you also need test hardware which can do KWP2000 over a CAN transceiver basically. With PCM this is why you need Scanmatik.
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terminator
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2022, 12:27:58 PM »

As I know some of Bosch ECUs can not be reflashed this way. Am I right they do not allow to calculate checksum for the password area?
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prj
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« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2022, 03:49:30 AM »

So in terms of hardware, yes, you don't just need two voltages on S1 and S2, you need specific frequencies. And you also need test hardware which can do KWP2000 over a CAN transceiver basically. With PCM this is why you need Scanmatik.
I am going to correct you here, as you have the layers mixed up.

KWP2000 is the service layer. It can run over any transport protocol. For example ISO-TP, TP1.6, TP2.0 or K-Line.

What you mean here not KWP2000 over CAN, you probably mean K-Line over CAN Wink
As KWP2000 over ISO-TP or TP1.6/TP2.0 is a completely normal thing.
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d3irb
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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2022, 09:09:27 AM »

I am going to correct you here, as you have the layers mixed up.

KWP2000 is the service layer. It can run over any transport protocol. For example ISO-TP, TP1.6, TP2.0 or K-Line.

What you mean here not KWP2000 over CAN, you probably mean K-Line over CAN Wink
As KWP2000 over ISO-TP or TP1.6/TP2.0 is a completely normal thing.


You're always keeping me honest! In this case though, I think there's a case to be made either way and this is pointless bickering... so, perfect for this forum Cheesy

ISO 14230-1:1999 Road vehicles — Diagnostic systems — Keyword Protocol 2000 actually encompasses every layer, including Layer 1 (Physical), which is really just ISO 9141 rehashed anyway.

Anyway I think I'd be considered "wrong" anyway here since there are 2-byte length headers, rather than the KWP2000 Layer 2 3-byte ones anyway, although there is still an Add8/sum-byte checksum. And the baud rate negotiation isn't really the same.

Regardless, the point I was making was that on a "native" CAN ECU you need hardware that can route a UART over a CAN transceiver for Bosch Service Mode - which in addition to the two frequencies / square waves, is what keeps something like an OpenPort alone from being useful here.
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prj
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2022, 09:14:51 AM »

Usually 14230-3 is referred to as KWP2000, the service layer.
Because KWP2000 service layer can also run over other transports.

Hence yes, in this case it is better to say ISO 9141 over CAN, as it is super confusing otherwise.
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