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Author Topic: Cloning instrument cluster  (Read 11358 times)
Deko
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« on: June 19, 2015, 04:48:18 AM »

Hey,

so ill begin like this, new here, yeah... and have used both google and nefmoto search to gather as much knowledge and info on topic as i can.
Tho i feel im not really sure enough to actually take action, yet.

So here is what i need / want.
Just bought a used instrument cluster for Audi RS4 (b7)  for my A4 (as my "first" play-around project in vehicle electronics)
Now ive being told that the data from my original one needs to be cloned over to RS4 one, since data ins crypted, its not easy task like plugging in cables Tongue

I have been reading as much as i can about ECU / immo role in this process but the more i read the more im raising questionmarks.

I do not have VAGCOM nor VCDS access and the price of those are just too much for my wallet.
Tho i read that for example Kline cables would do the trick, is that correct ?
Also i do have FTDI 232RL (which i found out is being used in kline cables that work with ECU, do i need somekind of microcontroller with custom firmware or something to plug
FTDI into OBD2 ? Am using OSX / Linux only so it would be awesome to  make "own" kline cable.

Since  there are still soooo many questions for me to search answers for, im absolutely open to suggestions, links and all kind of inputs.
Please bear with me and my "dumb" questions. am really trying to get hold of the concept here and gather as much knowledge as possible.

I really hope theres someone whos kind enough to act as mentor of some kind Wink

Cheers

Edit: Shoot, just realized ive been searching for wrong keywords here, using Cluster as phrase gave way more results Tongue
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:01:48 AM by Deko » Logged
tjwasiak
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2015, 06:49:46 AM »

B7 instrument cluster? I am afraid you need expensive equipment to do anything with it. AVDI with proper license should do the trick.
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Deko
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 07:07:21 AM »

B7 instrument cluster? I am afraid you need expensive equipment to do anything with it. AVDI with proper license should do the trick.

Ohhh :S
wasnt prepared for that at all, been searching on google for topics where others have swapped and seems some have tried but not directly in B7 with B7 items.
Can find few posts about setting B7 IC into B6 or b5.

Have also found (unfort. lost the link) a post where someone did similar thing on b6 i think it was, he was looking for pinout descriptions and also posted later on a way he managed to get all data needed from old cluster into new one. Have no idea how legit that was but def gave some hope

It is a really nice piece tho, was really looking forward for coloured disp.


« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 07:09:22 AM by Deko » Logged
Deko
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 01:32:56 PM »

An update, took a look at Rosstech site since pretty much Audi forums point to that direction... vagcom & vcds
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Immobilizer_Swapping_%28Instrument_Cluster%29

Now im not sure if there is any alternatives to VCDS or VAGCOM (surely someone have created something, nowdays everything is hacked cracked)
but it seems rosstech's stuff allows one to swap instrument cluster.

But then theres the question of that PIN, in the cluster...
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 03:43:44 PM »

B7 is somewhat newer than Immo3 - but that still is not a problem. You can swap cluster in B7 but you have to know your cars PIN/SKC and use new (not used) cluster.
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Deko
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2015, 04:16:40 AM »

How do i find out which immo mine has ?
If i can swap to new (not used) cluster... bear with me if i get the terms wrong, does that mean the new cluster needs to be "virginized from fabric" ?
What would be the difference in those 2, some chip that needs tp be cleared or something ?

Im not so technical on this topic but as coder im not really accepting the fact this cant be done. Not that im blindly believing in what im trying to accomplish, but cause i lack knowledge in the tech when it comes to  cluster to understand the limitations.

As coder ive found it always helps to never give up Tongue But thats cause coding is a bit different and more "hackable" area than probably physical components i guess.
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2015, 05:55:05 AM »

Immo3 is just too old, Immo4 came years before your B7, so conclusion is simple Smiley

If you are able to virginize used cluster it behaves like new, so you will be able to use it. And here comes the problem - virgnizing it Smiley Second problem (which could be quite easily and cheaply solved is to obtain PIN/SKC for your car - if you do not have it, just pay at the dealership for it).
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Deko
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2015, 07:13:29 AM »

Okay that seems "easy" enough Tongue I guess theres a catch, there always is Tongue

got one more question, seems peeps are uploading dumps up here ans so on... since that part is pretty new, how can i get hold om my dumps ?
Any specific tools needed ?

Found this page http://www.audi-crypto-tools.co.nf/index.php, no idea how legit it is but thought   i could look around before actually writing anything on my stuff.
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2015, 08:17:40 AM »

If I were you I would check if genuine VAG Tacho supports both your instrument clusters (old/stock one and new) as you should read both of them. VAG Tacho should be cheapest option for you. If not VAG Tacho, check how much you will have to spend on AVDI with proper license. I do not think it would be possible for you to use anything cheaper.

Can you post both instrument clusters part numbers?
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Deko
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 08:44:13 AM »

Okay, is saturday so ill try to hit local dealer on monday Smiley


I havent unmounted original cluster yet, can probably do that later today.
but the RS4 cluster is: 8E0920931E
Beyond letter E im not able to see anything cause the sticker is damaged but i think E is last character. Ill get back to you with original cluster.

Also one more question, Any idea if the display from RS4 can be mounted on original cluster that has Red/yellow disp ?
Theoretically i already see thats problably not possible cause controllers, but you never know Tongue
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 09:39:49 AM »

I have never opened B6/B7 clusters so could not tell you if you can swap LCD with colour version.

The only letter past E could be X meaning this cluster had been refurbished by factory.

BTW. My ETKA tells me it is not RS4 cluster. It is just regular petrol cluster with speed scale up to 280km/h, which had been superseded by 8E0 920 931 Q and then by 8E0 920 933 E. S4 cluster current part number (for cars up to VIN ending in 180 000/802 000 in MY2007) would be 8E0 920 931 NX (only refurbished available). For newer cars within MY2007 it would be 8E0 920 931 TX. All those numbers are for colour FIS version of cluster. Real RS4 cluster (scaled up to 320km/h) would be 8E0 920 931 GX (up to VIN ending 904 177 in MY2007), 8E0 920 932 MX (up to VIN ending 905 700 in MY2007) and 8E0 920 932 BX for newer cars.

It might be just instrument cluster housing which had been replaced with different one, but if you want to find proper tool to read your cluster you really need to know real part number so you can tell for which car/MY it was used by OEM (as supported cars are listed that way most of the time).

To check real part number one would normally use VAG-COM/VCDS, after connecting to 17 Instrument Cluster one of the informations showed would be part number.
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Deko
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 11:15:01 AM »

ohhh,,, wait lol just realised a major thing.
So the deal is, this number i gave you, is NOT rs4 cluster part no.
Guy who sold me, switched front glass so the sticker i see is from his original cluster, ive contacted him and asked for the serial number that i has.
Sorry for confusing up here, totally went thru me the part no was from his cluster.

Tho, theres one more thing, when i took this cluster apart, i saw a piece of tape that wos tossed into the engine light socket, as well the plasting (having the numbers on, dont know the name) had engine part cavered on backside. So it could possibly be that the entire cluster could be from anything else than from RS4, and plastic was bought from ebay and cluster sold as OEM RS4 cluster.
Ill get back to you with the part no as soon as i have it.

PS, thanks  for your time and effort here, really appreciate  all the knowledge you share with me / future users.
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Deko
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 11:20:41 AM »

that went quick, got the part no for the supposedly rs4 cluster, yet to get mine

8E0920931G
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tjwasiak
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 11:47:26 AM »

Ok, so this should be oldest RS4 cluster.
AFAIK it is good for you as clusters from MY2008 onwards are even harder to work with.
Now you can look for a tool which is capable of reading & writing A4 clusters up to MY2007.
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Deko
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 01:01:30 PM »

Ohh that is really good news!!
I guess MY2007 & MY2008 mean the year those (clusters) were made or even year of car was made ?

Do you have any clue what would be the appropriate tool for this. I will google for sure, just wanna hear if you know any that might decrease my search time Tongue

Ive seen the Kline cables use FTDI232R(x) chips (and MPPSv13 too ?) and since i got sparkfuns FTDI with 232R im hoping to have some fund with that, tho i wonder does those cables have any other chips like microcontrollers or something ?
ive no idea if im at right track with my ftdi thinking here, but it sure would be awesome to get something working with it Cheesy
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