I have no need to quantify anything... But since you're so hot to call BS, why don'y you show me an real deal, fast ME7 tuned S4 with all the bullshit on?  No TQ management off, no hacks...

I'm not pressing my beliefs on to anyone... you can disagree with me, you can choose not to believe me... I don't really care.

I'm fully aware of how and why it's probably happening  

Of course it all comes back to everyone who is tuning these ME boxes are just modifying the bare necessities to actually get their desired outcome... Not one person here is actually able to completely reprogram a Motronic box accounting truly for all the hardware changes and the DESIRED application which differs greatly from the OEM calibration of the VAG engineers of EMISSIONS > SAFETY > DRIVEABILITY.

In the end everyone is just finding ways to best deal with ME's grip on power control and to minimize it's effect/changes on the fast and slow paths.

Maybe now... maybe.

Maybe one day we will see a 700-800awhp ME7 powered S4 that goes fast

All I know is if/when I build another one, it will not be running under Motronic 

If everyone thought like that everyone would still be on K03's...

Pump gas sucks balls period... Unfortunately people have very unrealistic expectations these days of what can happen on pump gas just because someone else on the internet did it.

Sure with an extremely well flowing setup you have a much higher ceiling even on pump, but you're still always going to have the limitation from that fuel.

That's because you have a nice setup... you're not trying to get the impossible with crappy 2.8 cast manifolds that the masses just eat up 

I STILL don't know what you're talking about. I PERSONALLY built an 03 RS6 that has over 650 whp. We did the manual transmission conversion to it, the water methanol kit,  the center diff upgrade, and a bunch of other stuff. It looks like it came from the factory a manual, we made a new carbon fiber surround for the shifter and everything. I can't lay claim to the tune it was done by a guy here in Woodinville Washington who is apparently a pretty awesome tuner. I'm not sure what he had to do, at the time nobody else managed to do it without a check engine light because it was looking for the TCM. I think he uploaded an S6 tune to it or an A6 tune, and then modified it from there because the RS6 file will not let you code it as manual even though it provides coding info in VCDS to do it. We also had to run some wires to the ABS module I think because the TCM normally supplied the VS signal or the load signal on the auto cars. It was years ago. Anyway, it has a shit ton of power, granted it has 2 more cylinders. But here's the thing, you can put your grandma or wife in it, and you know that it's not going to get squirrely and built 30 hp from a normal throttle application.

The Honda guys do what you're talking about, they take their ECM in a late 90s Civic, and then they turn off absolutely everything so it's controlling air and fuel using basically just the crank and cam sensors, the map, and the coolant temp sensor. They don't run knock sensors, they don't even run an O2 (granted their factory narrowband wouldn't do shit), And then they go build tons of power. And nearly every single person I know that has done that ends up blowing their motor up if they daily drive it. And some of them blow it up even only weekend driving it once and a while. I'm not sure why they don't at least run an Innovate WB with the simulated narrowband output so that it tricks the car into thinking it's .75 v when it's at whatever proper AF ratio you want to run under power. I'd at the least be doing that.

We all know that when you start getting up above a certain amount of hp that the factory knock management, torque limiters, traction control, etc start to get in the way, especially when you're running upgraded engine mounts as a near necessity, and you're on a stiff suspension, the factory strategy wasn't made for it and doesn't know what to do, the knock sensors freak the fuck out.

The people modding other brands of the same era don't have as much to lose, they don't have traction control, their cars don't supply signals to the airbag module to aid in the airbag strategy, and frankly their factory management is inferior in the first place. They don't really have a choice, they have to disable everything to even make the power we can make with no hardware upgrades, they have to sleeve the block on some of them. So their choice is made easy, the car isn't going to be driveable in a tame manner, it's barely going to be streetable, and they go standalone.

The vast majority of the vehicles I built were people who wanted power, but wanted to drive it a few times a week at the least, or daily driveable power. And, I live in Seattle, which due to being next to the mountains has unpredictable weather. People know it rains here, but they don't often realize that we can go from sunny not a cloud in the sky, with no prediction of rain, and 15 minutes later the darkest clouds you've seen rolling in, and a rain and hailstorm, and then back to blue skies an hour later.

Even a 500 whp S4 starts to be an issue daily driving with our terrain and weather. We can drive them with traction control on, and driving them normally, but trying to get on it will break all 4 wheels loose even with good tires. Much over that and you can't drive the car 9 months out of the year, our tracks aren't even open much more than 4 or 5 months. I think they're opening now, around May/June and close in November, but many of the test and tunes and races after August get cancelled from rain.

But our cars are still easily street driven at 500, 600 whp, and my friends that have Hondas or other cars with that much power just aren't. Firstly they aren't AWD, but even when you compare a GTI/Jetta to a Honda, the VWs drive FAR better on the street.

I see you saying that there's no fast ME7 cars that drive well, and I understand you're talking about making maximum power through all gears, but I've yet to ride in a standalone car of any kind that drives well as in, is easy to drive on the street, and doesn't make my kids sick from all the jerking around.

They aren't drag race cars, they're autobahn cruisers, they're meant to be fast and refined/comfortable and I think the majority of the tuners and modifiers out there have the same type of attitude towards them. Even a 450 to 500 WHP Mk4 or B5 car will walk on 99% of the cars on the road. I'm not willing to trade the ability to throw my wife the keys so she can take it to the store and not worrying that she'll torque steer into a telephone pole, to make an extra amount of power that'll I'll likely never need in a light to light race against a random car, or some hwy fun. I WANT my airbag module to get the proper torque signals so it doesn't blow the second stage of the airbag and break my face, and so the auto tensioning pyrotechnic belts work. I want the car to still pass emissions so that I don't have an impossible time selling it if I need or want to. And lastly, I don't want to worry about blowing my motor up. I can shift the timing window so I run water/meth, and it will run full timing, but if I run out and I'm 100 miles from home I can get home with my 10 degree or more window of timing pull on 91 octane and still get on it. I like that when the ambient conditions support it, the car automatically increases the power to compensate for the ability to add more timing.

You're confusing can't with don't want to I think. It's just a different mindset. Go faster, but lose so much street driveability, reliability, emissions, and safety wise. Or go stand alone and get more power, but lose traction control, proper ABS function, proper TCM function if you're auto, proper airbag function, and the smoothness needed in city driving.

I think by now everyone knows enough about ME7 to get whatever they want out of it. ST certainly always has known.

Dumb thread, IMO

More bullshit from AZ leaking into the real world and making people stupid.

Wow you guys are still yapping about a post made 2 years ago, and on top of that this troll thread?

In the past there was a point where the majority of ME cars just weren't fast... that is a fact.  They made numbers, but never translated on the street.

Regardless of what one thinks, there is a difference between making a pull on the dyno in a single gear and racing.

Apparently it's more important to talk shit about posts on other forums and believe there is no point to do something unless you need to use anything else except pump gas.