silentbob
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 10:27:23 AM »
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Today a lot of functions are object code that is developed by the OEM and the supplier has to provide the software interface. How much depends on the OEM. GM for example has their own software and only buys the hardware.
The stupidity involved in the VW case is really unbelievable.
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prj
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2015, 10:46:53 AM »
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Well considering every S-tronic gearbox contains (very conservative) shift maps for "Emissions mode", I doubt VW is only doing this in murica.
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silentbob
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2015, 11:23:05 AM »
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It's a significant difference between optimizing the calibration for the emmision test which is "legal" and using a "test mode". Probably others will be that stupid as well but every sane person will not pull a stunt like this especially in the US.
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nyet
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2015, 11:26:44 AM »
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It's a significant difference between optimizing the calibration for the emmision test which is "legal" and using a "test mode"
I always assumed that car manufacturers did this commonly. It works that way in EVERY other industry with government testing... you make up the test, specify the conditions for the test, and publish that along with the results. The certification organization doesn't give a rats ass if it was done in a "special" test mode. They don't even double check the results; they assume you are being honest. All they care about is the big check you write them to get your rubber stamp. |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 02:17:27 PM »
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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AARDQ
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 04:53:17 PM »
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I always assumed that car manufacturers did this commonly. It works that way in EVERY other industry with government testing... you make up the test, specify the conditions for the test, and publish that along with the results.
The certification organization doesn't give a rats ass if it was done in a "special" test mode. They don't even double check the results; they assume you are being honest. All they care about is the big check you write them to get your rubber stamp.
Not combustion equipment (boilers, combustion turbines). Testing in a special test mode may net you an orange jump suit. Most of such equipment is equipped with real-time monitoring with results often dumped right to the friendly monitoring folks. |
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nyet
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2015, 04:58:50 PM »
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How this happened is pretty neat. Michigan’s Stefanopolou says computer sensors monitored the steering column. Under normal driving conditions, the column oscillates as the driver negotiates turns. But during emissions testing, the wheels of the car move, but the steering wheel doesn’t. That seems to have have been the signal for the “defeat device” to turn the catalytic scrubber up to full power, allowing the car to pass the test
prj or anybody, can you confirm this? |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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adam-
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2015, 12:08:58 AM »
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What happens if you put it on a dyno for tuning, rather than for measuring?
You'd never get a good tune, because it would always be restricted; as per prj's description for reducing NOx.
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2015, 05:28:26 AM »
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What happens if you put it on a dyno for tuning, rather than for measuring?
You'd never get a good tune, because it would always be restricted; as per prj's description for reducing NOx.
This is my biggest question as well. How have performance tuners not noticed this for the last decade? |
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Rick
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2015, 06:41:50 AM »
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What's interesting is that EDC17CP14 cars do not function on the Dyno without ABS disconnected - i.e. they will not give full power.
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spacey3
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2015, 06:52:26 AM »
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What's interesting is that EDC17CP14 cars do not function on the Dyno without ABS disconnected - i.e. they will not give full power.
I think that answers the question then! It's all very naughty... |
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adam-
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2015, 07:05:06 AM »
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But it doesn't. If what prj said is correct, to reduce emissions, cylinder temperatures have to be low. And if they're low, power is restricted.
So surely if they're on the dyno for testing, power is low. Rick said that if the ABS is disconnected on the dyno, power is restored. Makes no sense, since you don't want power, you want emissions?
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Rick
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2015, 07:23:12 AM »
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they run, but will not give full power.
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spacey3
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2015, 07:23:34 AM »
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But it doesn't. If what prj said is correct, to reduce emissions, cylinder temperatures have to be low. And if they're low, power is restricted.
So surely if they're on the dyno for testing, power is low. Rick said that if the ABS is disconnected on the dyno, power is restored. Makes no sense, since you don't want power, you want emissions?
I'm not sure I quite get you... As Rick said, they have low power on the dyno, which would make for low emissions wouldn't it? (I think this is what you're also saying) The ABS sensor being disconnected I would assume deactivates this 'test mode'. Along with all these steering angle sensors etc. if one part of the system goes down then surely interventions would stop? I guess you could try disconnecting only the steering angle sensor and seeing if that 'restores' power on the dyno also. |
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adam-
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2015, 07:31:28 AM »
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Yes, so leave the ABS connected and you have limited power? Is that just because it doesn't understand why the front wheels are spinning and the back's aren't, so it limits power?
Torque intervention? Rather than emissions control. Not sure that's right. Don't understand the steering angle sensors either. From a point of view of tuning, why has no-one complained on poor results because the ECU is in "test mode"?
I'm convinced there's gotta be a codeword setting it. Do we even know how they test them? What if they're not installed in the car and on test beds instead? There would be no steering sensors.
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