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Author Topic: ME7.5 differences from ME7.1  (Read 92231 times)
rayce
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2011, 11:18:38 AM »

I figured out the KKL cable, the two boards are held together with only 4 strips of solder. Two of them cracked so a few minutes to re-solder and all is good for logging.

 I have made a few tuning adjustments and experimented with the logger. I’m only recording single gear pulls. ECUxPlot loads correctly so here is a CSV to look at. I don’t think I’m getting fuel cut and looks like boost is going over the max capable readings and still tapering down. I may need to drive around a bit to let it adapt but I really don’t see how my car is going to hold 2550mbar of boost in to the 6k range. I will move on to more work with fuel and maybe timing.

Regarding fuel, my air flow meter is stock so do I need to scale it anyway? If so what is the reason and will it actually show false readings when logging?

My MAF notes are….


MAF
Size is 2.75” 69.85mm
Stock Scale 4.9904V = 1253kg/hr (348.05g/s)
Stock Scale 3.0079V = 377.100kg/hr (104.75g/s)
Stock Scale (approx) 4.V = 687.6kg/hr (191g/s)
Range used is approx 54.88%
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 11:20:38 AM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
nyet
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« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2011, 11:36:07 PM »

WGDC is still not being logged correctly. Grab setzi's latest version and regenerate your config. Something is VERY wrong with that ram location. Also log the PID outputs lditv, ldptv,ldrdtv and both WGDC variables ldtvm, ldtvr


Also, your req AFR is completely nuts. Something is very very wrong with your fueling maps (unrelated to injector or MAF setup, this is purely map related)

Your MAF readings look fine, however, you are maxing out your load, no clue why.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 11:39:24 PM by nyet » Logged

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rayce
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« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2011, 07:16:18 AM »

Update:
Well my MAF is consistently over 200g/s now and I've been over and over with boost. I'm going in for exploratory surgery after the max boost test I performed last night failed miserably. I’ve been going over the compressor map and reading about boost with the K04 and it should hold 22psi through all gears. Mine tapers down to 16lbs at 6000rpm and even pinching shut the waste gate line produces the same result. I floored it after 4500rpm for this test just to make sure boost across the whole run did not exceed 2550mbar and my throttle plate held perfect 100% at 20 samples a second logging.

One thing is for sure, no tune can overcome a mechanical issue.  Roll Eyes
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04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
rayce
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« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2011, 01:05:47 PM »

I pulled the metal tubing elbow from the turbo to the front pass side headlight and rubber tube going in to the throttle body and pressure tested the tubing and intercoolers between the turbo and throttle body with no leaks. I tested the waste gate by simply holding it open and putting my finger over the bottom port of the n75 to keep it open, the spring could not close it until I let go . So the waste gate diaphram is okay. I put everything back and started looking at the BOV again. Just to verify a second time I checked the waste gate to make sure the spring is holding it all the way closed and it is. Okay back to the BOV, I went full adjustment 52 clicks installed backwards and still not above 16psi at 6k but no problem holding above 2550mbar between 3200rpm and 4700rpm. Boost just tapers down as rpm goes up. WTF
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 01:36:09 PM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
RRRS
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« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2011, 01:23:12 PM »

FYI:
Sorry to say that but it´s impossible to run a K04 (020/022/023) at 2550mbar boost up to redline or at 6k rpm and above.
The K04 is not capable to get these boost figures at higher rpm rates. The maximim boost levels can get up to 1,7 bar at 3k and at 6k 1,3bar (at a known good turbo with uprated forge boost actuator, i only knew one mate who drive these boost figures on BAM Engine but is was a special application only on hits own request, the tuner (MTM) normally did not program these boost levels because they are out of specification of the max (safe) values) but the turbo will not last long at this boost rates.
If we were able to measure the T/C shaft rpm it will be way beyond the safe limits of this turbo.
Also K04 hybrid turbos (larger compression and turbine wheels, uprated bearings) are not able to hold 1,55bar boost onto redline!
They can hold 1,3bar safer onto redline than a OEM K04 but that´s it.
Common settings of boost levels for K04´s are up to 1,5-1,6bar at 3k and 1,1-1,2bar at 6k (approx. 270bhp and up to or above 290-300lbft).
Save setting will be 1,3-1,35bar at 3k and 1,0bar at 6k. (aprox 250bhp, don´t know torque figures).
bhp and torque figures can vary by additional modifications e.g. decat, 3"downpipe, fmic (highly recommend for tuned 1,8t, the OEM SMICs are crap!), exhaust manifold,......so see them as a known (minimum) value for these boost levels.
Standard setting of boost level for k04 220bhp is 0,9bar w/o overboost and about 180-190g/s MAF.
MAF readings on "chipped" 1,8T 225PS are (as stated before) beyond 200g/s up to 220g/s depending in airfilter/open cone/tip configuration.

I will have a look into your logs within the next days...
In which gear were the logs done?
The RPM reading is not detailed enough. Normally you should have 20-40values between 2500-6800 rpm for detailed investigation.
The VCDS readings are quite good if you use only 2 measuring blocks or if possible up to 6 or 8 single values.

Sorry i´m not very frequent in this forum due to limited time...
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rayce
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« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2011, 01:43:17 PM »

Okay ill send shortly.... gettiing my ears lowered
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04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
TTQS
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« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2011, 01:49:47 PM »

fmic (highly recommend for tuned 1,8t, the OEM SMICs are crap!)

I'm sorry to be pedantic, but I understand 2550 mbar to be an absolute pressure, not a boost pressure as you have stated, i.e. 1550 mbar boost + ca. 1013 mbar atmospheric.

Please elaborate on 'crap'. I have never seen this word used in Audi or Bosch literature, or any automotive engineering, fluid mechanics, or technical assessment I have ever reviewed.

FMICs are certainly popular aftermarket modifications, but I have not seen any objective comparison of cooling duty with the OEM SMICs. Please provide a link to such. When I have assessed this, I will consider paying out ~€800 for one.

What I did find odd for the TT 8N was that owners were having FMICs fitted which had approximately one third of the frontal area blocked by the crash bar. They must be incredibly efficient if 2/3 of a FMIC is still better than two SMICs which serve me well up to ~275 bhp/300 lbft.

Doug
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 01:56:52 PM by TTQS » Logged
rayce
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« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2011, 03:47:22 PM »

Okay thanks to you both for your input but let’s figure this out but just for the record, I don’t plan to change my intercooler setup regardless of weather it is good or bad. I just want to test my car to find the best performance with what I have. The only mod I did over stock is fuel pressure because my calculations didn’t show results that I would be personally satisfied with and raising pressure put me in the ball park.  

RRRS, it sounds like you know quite a bit about the K04 and your explanation seems to be exactly what I am finding with my own testing but it would be great to have something to compare it to.

TTQS can you log your boost curve, with your current tune to compare to mine with setzi62’s logger or can you verify what boost you show at 6k RPM with a vag com log?

I’m not sure what is defining maximum boost. I can set up a tune that never goes above 2550mbar and peaks at lets say 2540 dead load e.g. 6th gear 2500rpm. (minus ambient which is 980-995mbar for me) Now take that setting and go to the drag strip and you will be lucky to get over 2100mbar logged the whole run at 20 samples a second because you will never load the motor in that manner during the entire run as you will keep the motor in its peak output. Inversely I can set up a tune that goes considerably over 2550mbar 6th gear 2500rpm but that same drag race just never goes over 2550mbar. So it is odd to say X is the most boost or Y is the most boost because what are we talking about relative to loading the engine and acceleration?

Here is a log that will easily go over 2550mbar if I floor it at 2500rpm in 6th gear but never came close to 2550mbar when running through a few gears in a normal fashion and this is not even close to how hard I would drive it if it were a true drag race so boost would show even lower.

Also an image using ECUxPlot
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 05:37:51 PM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
rayce
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« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2011, 04:15:29 PM »

I wanted to note more regarding MAF. I program combustion control for industrial boilers and to trim the boiler with our oxygen analyzers, we lie to the air flow transmitter signal. A function generator that simply multiplies .85 to 1.15 to the air flow transmitter over a 0 to 100% span so 50% equals a multiplier of 1. Regarding air flow, it is relative to the span of the differential pressure transmitter with square root multiplier and we span the air flow for minimum and maximum flow of each and every startup we do. There are simply too many variables to calculate the exact flow (SCFH) of the ductwork, pre-heater, FGR, boiler, stack optional scrubber and anything else I missed. I know a car that is produced in duplicate is a different story and I understand that. I also understand mass air flow is different than delta p but either type of measurement input can be lied to in the program.

Following this with tuning, I go in to the program and see the MAF can and often is scaled for what I am assuming is similar reasons. I know this is simply lying to the signal but it reflects on the reading you are going to get when you log. Perhaps this is why some say to take the readings with a grain of salt because you do not know how the program was tuned. I chose to go to the fuel tables and another may go to the mass air flow. Another may use both. Regardless, the best way to estimate horsepower is to measure acceleration and compare to the weight of your car. This will give you the work over time figures. A truck stop or drag strip will usually have scales and setzi62’s logger is pretty darn fast compared to vag com. Another way is to take a look at fuel. Find the B.S.F.C efficiency for the car you drive and do calculations with injector flow and you will be in the ball park.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 04:26:10 PM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
nyet
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« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2011, 05:14:56 PM »

ECUxPlot has HP/TQ calcs that do as you suggest. You need to enter weight, frontal area, cd, and gearing information.
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ME7.1 tuning guide
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
rayce
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« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2011, 07:08:53 PM »

Scratching my head….

It was an interesting trip home today and I think I can’t see the forest because of the trees. I’m rolling along and ended up in and swapping lanes with three cars. I got up behind the guy in the biggest hurry and noticed he would punch his car and try to leave me behind. I would just step in to it around 3k rpm 6th gear and buzz right up to him no problem. He got a little upset and a hole opened up so he just flat nailed it. I took this as an opportunity to get up beside him and wave hello, then I put it to the floor and just flat embarrassed him. I let up at 130mph and I was easily fifteen cars in front of him and I was waiving bye bye the whole time around him so he naturally didn’t have a very good look on his face. I was wondering if his car had a top speed limiter on it for how bad I blew him away. It looked like a brand new car and when I was buzzing up behind him I noticed the exhaust pipes were pretty big. The model was Infiniti M56x. It sure looked like a nice car.

I got home and looked it up to find out it is 420hp 420ft/lbs torque.

Whaaat there is no way. I am convinced my car can’t be over 250hp. I know he was all the way in it by the way the back end of his car squatted down and the exhaust was blowing water. We were both driving pretty crazy and he pulled a dirty move making a quick left lane change while coming up on a car real fast. I shot to the right lane, passed the slow car, then came back over and ended up back on his bumper.

Maybe I’ve been spending so much time tuning I’m not paying attention to how fast my car already is. It’s kind of deceiving. My corvette used to just break the back end loose even at 70mph. The TT just grips and goes.

I will update my map spreadsheet with all the maps I used for my tune and maybe some screen shots to help out anyone else interested in giving it a go. I may even post my tune… well see but more testing first because I’m having a hard time believing my car could be this fast. One thing is for sure, I have so much time working on this, and my tune involves over thirty map edits. That may be a bit over the top but I’ve been trying to rule out some of the edits only to find I loose power. I’ve flashed my car over seventy times to get to this point with at least three logs minimum for each flash.

BIG Thanks to: Nefmoto, Tony, nyet setzi62 and TTQS (mostly for pissing me off). You guys have been a real big help and I’m having a lot of fun with all of this.

Unfortunately I wish my wife had the same opinion, she misses me….
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04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
rayce
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« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2011, 07:59:41 PM »

I'm sure it's not faster than a M56x but not bad...

I'm keeping my word...
zip includes....
x2 - OLS map packs, only changed maps & all maps
x2 - logs, single in 2nd gear & standing to 100mph
8N0906018CJ - r00 ..my tune so far as shown in image

feedback is welcome....
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 08:03:16 PM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
nyet
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« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2011, 08:05:24 PM »

btw there is a menu option in ECUxPlot to "export" your graph to .png

can't see much from your screen shot, it got resized to something stupid.
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ME7.1 tuning guide
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Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2011, 08:10:16 PM »

Also, ECUxPlot's filter will do much better if you include accelerator pedal position..
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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
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Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
rayce
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« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2011, 09:18:49 PM »

.ping export will save some time, thx. full size jpegs are in the zip.. ill get pedal angle in some logs when I get a chance. I'm working on the wgdc some and smoothing out the a/f at 6k to 7k and other minor stuff. egt is staying lower and it seems to rev out better. From what I can tell egt (DLBTS) changes a/f and timing if too high so I must be staying in the LAMFA map. I had to scale the MAF after running off the tables with timing and this forced me to review a lot of previous adjustments.

Tuning is following s4wiki for the most part.

 The main difference unique to my ecu is lack of KFDLULS. I zeroed TLDOBAN, maxed GWPLDOB, maxed SDLDRL, and most important set entire KFVPDKLD to a value of 3. Any input to a better way of turning off over boost is welcome.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 05:08:25 AM by rayce » Logged

04 TT 225BEA Quattro
68 T1 VW Street Rail 2.5 Turbo 18psi 1300lbs
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