NefMoto

ok so im having a problem car is a corrado with a 1.8t swapped in and ko4 xl billet turbo awic 3" turbo back high flow manifold. current tune uses a late model vr6 maf sensor and housing 52lb ev14 injectors. in first and second gear at wot i get a power cut/ boost cut im running 25-30psi on this setup. here is the log please let me know what else i should be logging, i tried to figure out whats happening but i feel im missing some variables that will tell me. i can see timing is all over the place so i assume its riding the knock sensor. also this is a completely stock junk yard motor car is not a daily just a toy dont care if the rods bend break ect...

logs don't include boost actual, timing corrections, etc.  I can't tell where it's cutting in the logs either.  Get logs with more variables.

Assuming you are making 25-30psi @4,500+, the Mass Air Flow looks way low.

i understand 25psi on k04 but 30psi ? is not much ? or this is overboost?

i will post another log with those variables, in the log you can see the maf @5360rpm the maf drops from 144 to just 44 rapidly. also i thought that i was at or a above the limit of the map sensor so i wasnt sure it would be useful

30psi is alot but as this isnt a daily i want the capability to run high boost at the track. it will taper to lower twenties so not to redline, i know the wastegate duty cyle goes to 100% in the log at the same time the maf reading drops from 144 to 44 gps. i will add more variables and log some more, thank you guys appricate the imput

30psi on a K04 is going to have extremely high intake temps. Especially in a track environment assuming you run in the summer.

Sounds like floaty valves and melted Pistons. Stock manifold and small hot side choke so bad. Just really wrong.

And why are you running a 2001 aww software? There's 032hs is the right immo for your car if it's actually a awp

So many assumptions here and people didn't even look at the log apparently.
IATs are below 45 deg C.

Add these to your log config and record another one:
wdkba
wped_w
ps_w
pu_w
pvdks_w
msdk_w
dwkrz_0
dwkrz_1
dwkrz_2
dwkrz_3

EDIT: Your requested boost is at ~18psi. When you go ~200 mbar over that - you will get throttle cut.

I didn't look.  :)

thank you sir, im running an air to water intercooler so that keeps intake temps in a decent range. also i do have a high flow manifold and 3" turbo back no cat. i can understand this is extreme but by logging passes and checking plugs you gamble less. im planning on drag racing occasionally ad using the tools i have.

here is another log, i adjusted ldrxn/zk and pulled some timing out of it and still have a cut. it is much clearer in the logs but im drawing a blank. i must be missing something because i can see requested boost drop out completely

LOL at your actual boost.

WTF are you doing?

You're going to pop a turbo or blow your motor pretty quickly with that shit tune.

the 001xl is a clone of the f21 1:1. the small frames choke out very quickly egts skyrocket and turbos fail quickly. whats ldrxn and zk look like?

Irrelevant compared to the mess that is his actual boost.

Unless he uses the 5120 hack this project is a still born waste of time.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Throttle_cut

well thanks but a 5120 hack on a 1.8t is much more involved.. i guess ive got more work to do

nice AFR

I'd say stick to running near the MAP limit, and get some good timing.

Well, this needs 5120 or a "near map limit" tune, yep.
Decrease LDRXN by about 10-15 points and that should bring you to "measurable" boost levels.

Was thinking that.  How is there no knock!?

Check ps_w. By some lucky coincidence it's juuuuuust riding the limit. So, AFRs remain fairly normal.

req boost is well below the MAP limit, which is why he's seeing throttle cut IIRC.

so he really needs to INCREASE ldrxn and cut a ton of WGDC

Thank you everybody, I will try a few options I'm going away for the weekend won't be able to test pilot till wednesday, also I think I may swap a oem wastegate on this thing because the cracking pressure is higher, no matter how I adjust the preload.

Meh, my bad indeed. Was looking at the rlsol_w when I wrote that (which is well above rl_w) - and completely forgot the fact that pssol is pretty darn low.

Try it "as is" with a stock wastegate and check where your requested and actual boost pressures are. Then start playing with boost PID as outlined in the wiki.

here it is, i adjusted the wastegate quite a bit and now boost is much more under control(too much of a pia to swap for oem). spiking and holding 25psi thru the mid range and tapering to 15psi. most importantly no power/boost cut. car rips i think its time to get out to the drag strip for fine tuning im not really comfortable on the street doing long wot blasts...

Still a bit of a hot mess.

You have a HUGE deviation post ramp, you'll still possibly throw limp.

Get req boost closer to map limit, also, your IMAX is proably way too high, your wgdc is really screwed up.

I did see a few things I wasn't happy with but for only adjusting the wastegate I'm happy. I only had like 20 mins free today. I will adjust the file tomorrow to get things aligned the way they should be or at least closer.

which k04 you running?

Xspower ko4 xl with billet wheel. Not great but not terrible

FT F21 CLONE. I USED THE K04-023XL AND IT WAS OK.

I CAN BARELY HEAR YOU

so I have increase ldrxn to 255 and set wgdc to 75% on both maps and requested boost never meets actual. What am I doing wrong?

Impossible to say w/o looking at the logs, but until you learn more about PIDs it will be very hard to spoon feed this side of tuning.

I'll post logs tomorrow as I'm away from my computer rite now, and I will read thru the wiki more

here is the latest log. im thinking i may need to increase kfmiop and kfmirl

Barely any boost until 3.2k on a K04 sucks.   Why is engine load so low?  Duty is flat out so either leaks/dead turbo.

ps_w is so very low. MAF readings and msdk_w are all over the place. Throttle cut after ~5200 RPM.
Lower the DIMX even more in 3500+ RPM zone.
Is your MAF properly scaled? If it is - double-check DV.

Absolutely the last thing you should do. I have zero idea why you think this is at all the case.

ps_w is crazy low, so either your MAF is horribly underscaled or you have a gigantic post maf pre turbo inlet leak.

Spool is incredibly lazy for a K04. Even if we disregard that:

Your LDRXN is still too low, and DIMX is still way too high, or Q2 is way too low, or both.

The whole log is an utter mess, from start to finish.

It isn't clear at all you understand anything from the tuning page, let alone the FR, especially if you think (for some bizarre reason) KFMIRL and IOP have anything to do with the problems you're seeing.

Best way is to use an MBC to not kill turbo/rods with big overboost. Then u can set a desired boost wich will be limited by mbc..

LOL best way is to double and triple and quadruple-check that the car is mechanically sound, and that there are no leaks. But yeah, most people will just say "yeah I've tightened up all the clamps, it's air tight" so what can you expect?

Or you can tune it properly?

x2

FFS

No.

i did a smoke test and there are no leaks, tried the mbc would rather have the n75 there. also for my maf housing i used a 24v vr6 sensor and housing with these maps copied from same file 022 906 032 bm
-MLHFM
-MLOFS
-KFMLDMN
-KFMLDMNX
-KFKHFM
is that correct or is that also wrong...

Unless you are intentionally underscaling the MAF, yes, something is wrong.

Also, one of the reasons your engine didn't blow up yet - this underscaled MAF actually makes your AFRs somewhat decent. If you fix the MAF without fixing the overboost first - you run a risk of leaning it out and melting or breaking something.

so the stock 1.8t maf on a ko4 will not max out?

Maybe, but that isn't the problem. You don't seem to understand what we're saying :(

so the 52lb ev14 injectors have nothing to do with my fueling being good?

If your fueling is right (apparently by blind luck, it wasn't thanks to anything you did right), but MAF is underscaled, likely you have a leak of some kind or your krkte is wrong. You're damned lucky you have a WB car.

so i need to use spread sheet program to scale it to match the file itself and that will bring my requested boost closer to actual?

Not even close. It is entirely unrelated to your boost issues. That is a completely separate problem.

At this point you really need to step back from what you are doing and try to understand how the ECU works :(

Firstly, get the boost under control. And keep watching AFRs while at it.
When you manage to achieve that - you can proceed to other issues at hand.

Cut the bunch out of KFLDIMX at 3500+ RPM, this should help lower it somewhat.
Review the wiki (http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Boost_PID).

Agreed. Boost first (get it sane - get it consistently below ps_w max), then fix MAF/fueling issues, then revisit boost, then revisit fuel, then timing.

Would it be better to start with a 225 file and matching maf?

Does your KRKTE match theoretical?

I don't believe it does its very slightly lower than stock I adjusted latency and checked fuel trim and idle was within 5% and part throttle was less than 1% so more than likely krkte off I'm away from my computer right now but I'll get the exact number and factor I used

Why would you use stock KRKTE if you aren't using stock injectors?

ok so im abandoning the 06a906032dl file and using the tt file 8no906018bb
im gonna calibrate the injectors till fuel trims are good. i have a question, if i wanted to use the newer style vr6 sensor will i swap the maps over for that or is it not possible with out scaling (maf housings are the same size iirc)? reason i ask is that im not sure i have a good old style sensor

Why would that fix KRKTE if you set it wrong for your injectors?


This can't be done w/o getting your MAF scaling right as well. In general, you start with KRKTE at theoretical, TVUB from injector specs, and scale the MAF until your trims are right (assuming you have no idea what your MAF curve is.)

If you do know what the MAF scaling is, and you leave it at theoretical, and your trims are WRONG there is something wrong with your assumptions.


Find out FOR SURE what your MAF diameter is compared to the file you intend to use. Don't guess.

Same with the MAF sensor.

I'm really puzzled as to your approach here. None of what you posted really makes any sense to me.

I think it would be better to start with a stock file for a ko4 and go from there. I know from working on these cars ( I'm a mechanic / tech over 10 years) that the tt 225 uses same diameter housing as 2.8 12v/24v now the sensor is from early 12v is the same but halfway thru 12v they changed it and that carried over to the 24v. This is more or less a test to see if the car can boost properly with a factory K04 tune and hopefully it will be less intensive on the tuning side....

Dude stop, listen if you want to use a bigger maf thats fine. Pick a maf use the maf tables from that ecu in the file your tuning.
Stock maf should be ok for K04. I think you should start over to be honest stock file adjust for your injectors add fuel in the way you
choose, pull some timing out, add boost till you get what you want then add timing till it pulls 2 or 3 degrees done.

Clearly its not really this easy but you are making it harder by mix and matching parts.
If you max your maf just go to a s4 bosch super easy to get maf tables for.

Can I just ask why you're using an early sensor on a late car?  I think your sensor isn't correct for the management. 

Run a VR6 housing but the stock AUM/wideband sensor. 

As others have already said, your approach is wrong here.   You are destined for failure using a TT file on a AWP.  As far as I know, there are hardware differences (like an EGT sensor).

Start with a damned AWP file and properly calibrate your MAF maps based on a KNOWN good maf/housing combination (s4 hitachi or bosch would work fine, you can copy MLHFM/MLOFS directly from stock files).

Moving to a non-AWP does not help you in the least; it does NOT mean you have to learn less or tune less.

The opposite is true.

Not only are you insisting on taking short cuts out of laziness, they aren't even short cuts to begin with.

This is getting frustrating because you're just ignoring everything everyone is telling you and going off on some other bizarro digression.

For k04 tunes, I just use a larger MAF housing with the stock sensor.  Works perfect.

There's even a "mafadjust" program on here.  Simply give the program your bin, your current housing size, the new housing size and IT DOES IT FOR YOU!   Couldn't be easier.

06a906032hn file check, and stock maf check. Log, go from there.  Eliminate any other variables this way

Um stock file with fueling changes for the big injectors?
Maybe pull some timing aswell, I mean the ecu will pull it for you but the point is to do this right.

Finally got rid of my throttle cut issue. I had to raise the values over boost threshold and now I have wot all the way to red line.

He's a maniac.......MAAAAAANIIIAC

Well this is all wrong.

My fueling is good, spiking 25 holding 15 to redline. I need to work on the timing but car runs strong.

What even is boost threshold?  I don't understand what you mean.  Logs?

The when running near or over map limit there is a threshold between requested and actual. That value needs to be rasied. In my case I don't have the time to do the right thing like a 1320 hack. This works well enough for me and my needs.http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=114.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYKsjdkdRbw

!!!

I hope nobody follows your lead here.

I agree, there is a better "right" way to do what I accomplished but requires more time than what I have available currently. The car is enjoyable and it is a toy... I have other cars to drive.

I still don't understand what you've changed.

Once I'm by my computer again I'll post the names of the variables

I don't see a good reason  to train people to disable safety measures in ME7 to accomplish a questionable shortcut. If they have good reason to do so, they probably know enough to figure it out for themselves.

For the noob who just wants MBC/EBC w/o any thought put into it whatsoever, it is an exceedingly bad idea.

ok I see your point, I won't post it then. Fyi I am still using the n75 valve to control boost

Post it, I'm genuinely curious.  Not sure that fuelling will hold requested etc?

I see a shit ton of cars using mbc's and non-5120 files going way over the stock map limit. Problem is, non of them care enough to re-do things the correct way because "the car's been running fine for years this way".

Leading to the idea that the 2.7t is "unreliable" and "blows turbos" all the time.

Love it.

my fueling is rock solid .81 the second third and 4th. Also I used Ford truck ev14 550cc injectors so my krkte and tvub are much different than what everyone else is using.

Are you gonna tell us how you're above the MAP limit or not?

pm sent

That's no funnnnnn

I hear you, but I respect nyet s wishes, I might be dumb but I ain't no dumb ass

I'm actually ok if you post them. Gives me a chance to explain why they aren't a good idea... or, maybe, you'll convince me it is ok :)

ok the two maps I altered were Dpups and Plsolap. Something I found interesting is that in all the 1.8t damos I have they are described in hpa but in fact they are in millibar. They are set up stock at 500mb once you exceed this throttle is cut to prevent overboost. Now with  that being said if you adjust to suit your needs and don't max it out (2500mb) there is still some margin of safety.

And if you max ps_w? Then what?

Or pop a wg line?

Do you know how those convert into each other?  ;D

I see what your saying now, Google kept changing hectopascal in to pascal when I was converting it. Now I get it thanks for pointing that out lol

this more or less helps to make a higher boost spike. With out limping the car, I still had to work with wg duty cycle to get my boost curve to taper down in higher rpm 15psi. So it will still keep you from over boosting depending how you set it, so waste gate line yes with proper wgDC and ps_w no that's just balls to the wall.

car in question (https://s11.postimg.org/7iqjcjazz/20160929_112150_001.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7iqjcjazz/)

See no reason  to do any of your changes, honestly. In particular DPUPS shouldn't be an issue if you didn't completely bone LDRXN

The main problem is DSLOFS

i did try adjusting ldrxn and didnt matter where i set it

Then you didn't set it correctly, going back to what I was saying earlier about not tuning properly and disabling safety features you shouldn't :P