NefMoto

Greetings,

I've been studying the Simos18 manual to get an idea of whether this is possible.  I know APR has a 980cc injection kit that they have developed


I assume because it is coming with a fuel rail and a host of other components that the US/North American version did not come with any form of Port Injection.  The model in question that I am interested in is a Euro model that came with the very tiny 118cc +- port injectors.  I would like to use the same 980cc injectors APR is using as geometrically they fit perfectly.

I've studied the CBMD, FMSP, INJR and LASP modules to get an idea of how:

1. I would manipulate the ECU into using MPI-DI mode for the Homogenous Mode (Manipulation of Inhibits and DI/MPI/DI+MPI modes using the ID_IDX_CMB_MOD_INJ_etc plus other tables)
2. I would scale in 980cc Injectors (So far I've found the dead time / fuel mass / pressure / temp tables)
3. I would apportion the fuel calculation more towards the MPI (LOST HERE!) to take advantage of the greater fuelling capacity

So far I've found absolutely no resources at all, I can only assume that this is because of the commercial viability of this platform, which makes sense.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.  I'm losing my mind trying to scan through these modules and make sense of exactly how the fuelling is apportioned between MPI and HPDI
when in the combined DI + MPI combustion modes.  Potentially useful maps I've found in this regard are:

For enabling lambda control for MPI as well as DI

lc_fmsp_mpi_hpdi_mod_ena
lc_mff_hom_sp_split_up_cor_ena
lc_mff_add_lam_ad_out_split_ena

c_fac_mff_mpl_inj_hom_man[ID]

Some pertinent RAM variables:

fac_mff_mpi  - Fuel Mass Flow for MPI
fac_mff_mpl_split_cor[0][X]

If anyone is interested in collaborating to help figure it out, please contact me.  

Regards from the UK,

199X

Hello, I too am currently working on my golf 7r 2017 310hp. I put 400hp RS3 injector without setting my STFT and LTFT are between 0 and 5% so good. While I think I have a lot of correction but not at all I think the Injo of 7r 310hp = Rs3 8v 400CV.   What do you want as a setup?  Moi stage2 decat, admission VWracing, HPFP kit vis stage1, injector rs3 390CV to sp98. I wish to ride at E85 is have 420CV and 550nm in this config

Is there much difference in the size of the RS3 injectors over the 7R injectors? I would think they may be very similar, considering the similar cylinder volume.

Yes they are similar.  What's your project?

It sounds like the thread originator is trying to add high flow rate port injectors like the APR, UM, and Eurodyne software available in the US support and they are trying to find out how to scale the MPI/DI split as well as the MPI injector constants to work. These injectors have 4x+ the flow of the R/RS injectors so fuel trims won't work like they did for you.

Hello,

If you need a 2nd pair of eyes for the developement of this case then here I am to help as it interests me

I want to do the same on my car.
MPI completly turns off as soon as you make a bit of power.
It only idles on MPI injectors.
As soon as i have time to work on it i will post results.

Johan

If you guys want to create a chat group on whatsapp or facebook I have all the maps to switching split , scaling different size port injectors , how to control during certain torque and enabling on USA cars and much more.

That would be an awesome Idea, I've been emailing with Mike about this but I am sure he(we) would be very interested in having your knowledge on this one.

Good idea to us all we could do something clean

Would be a great idea. My personal car is Golf Mk7R that came with the tiny factory port injection. I'm going to try and get the port injection working at full load and then from there try and upgrade them to bigger units. If anyone wants me to test some ideas and report back, I'd be happy to do so.

Does anyone know if there's any factory injectors that have the same form as the mk7 but with higher flow? I ask because the APR kit is very pricy in my country

I would definitely be interested!

Good idea, Im in to help on this to.

For injector looks in the USA (nostrum Energy) very high flow
~ 1200cc Special ea888.

Tomorrow I'm testing the injector calibration to drive ethanol. I have to locate map that I will test (including 1 map one would say KRKATE Bosch to follow) if I happen to have STFT and Ltft good

What's the point to fit bigger DI injectors for E85 when you can just fit bigger port injectors, which is much much cheaper.
You can buy the needed components and it's all bolt on.

The car runs at E85. The single works well for the injector calibration. Tomorrow I ride to confirm and watch the Stft and Ltft. I think I have about 400 and 420CV soon pass on Rotronic

Hello, I have found to calibrate the injos. against the turbo is dead he does not like pressure 2.9bar .... so if you want some help to calibrate injo I am ok. is not to exceed 2.8 bar of impeccable turbo pressure above it has to break.

LOL

If anyone is looking to do anything more with the mpi other than what stock does then you really will need to look to increasing the restrictor on the connector from hpfp to lp fuel rail. The lpfp pressure sensor is on the rail and the restrictor will not flow enough really to give the impression that the lpfp is keeping up. So even if you have an upgraded pump which is supplying 5bar to the hpfp the lp sensor may be reading alot less due to its position and restrictor.

Hello, littco sorry my English is bad.
I did not understand you said that a restrictor on the MPI (low pressure injector)? is that this flange the low pressure injector?   

PS my Turbo will change tomorrow so I would continue testing them at E85

The brass connector that connects the hpfp to the lp fuel pipe.

LP fuel comes from the pump into the hpfp. This then feeds the hpfp and then feeds into the LP rail via the brass connector which had the small hole in it.

Thanks for your help on this, the stock diameter is absolutely tiny, so as soon as you start using the MPI injectors under boost, you will see the indicated MPI rail pressure dropping off sharply.  I drilled the fitting on the HPFP out to 5 mm and it's now flowing perfectly well.  This only pertains to the EURO spec, if you are retrofitting MPI injectors, you would T off before the HPFP and it wouldn't be an issue.

Thank you for the advice.  I look in the weekend

Did you find out how to use MPI in high Nm?

there looks to be maps for minimum Nm and maximum Nm to activate the MPI. 1 of each, min and max.

Hello, the Turbo was changed with a soft mod the car rolls well at E85. I will redo a mod with 1.7 bar in peak to finish to 1.4 bar hard cut. so I'm going to work on the advance and AFR to earn HP.

Do you have any logs you may be willing to post? 

Here is a log at the beginning of the setting.  Here is a log at the beginning of the setting. It is better log one thing after another otherwise the log are less precise

I have no idea how you can even remotely think you're working on a tune with those kind of "logs".
En francais: je n'ai pas la moindre idee comment tu penses pouvoir travailler sur une reprog avec ce genre de "logs" qui n'en portent que le nom.

yes if you had read what I wrote above that's what I said. The log is not good because it was a log with several groups is less accurate. the best is log group by group. rather than doing the donor of lecon and making fun if your so much helps a little to advance the subject. ps the golf works very well for me towards the 420cv turbo ori, without exchanger, just decat

Use Turbo mode and Group UDS Requests in VCDS. You should be able to get around 5 Hz logging from experience.

Also, if that is a stock IS38, I would not be going past 1.8 bar of boost - thrust bearings are really shit on these turbos.

Anyone ever considered just using one of these with the larger high pressure injectors....?

https://torqbyte.com/products/vag-pm4-high-power-fuel-pump-control-module

You can log 16hz with 7 values on VCDS.
Blog can do 20hz with with about 20 values.

Do you mean bflash? (Blog)

If you have a decent VCDS cable (HEX V2, HEX-NET), you can log 12 values with a decent datarate.
If they didn't have the retarded 12 value limit, you could log more.

The problem with bflash as well as vcds is that it's mode22 :(
Can't see anything useful for anything that has more power than stock, hell even making stock tune properly when you don't see a lot of relevant data is annoying.

 DiagRA possible make good log 

any other ?

Mmm, I'm still using an older HEX-CAN (genuine) cable. Was wondering if it was worth it to upgrade for MQB and newer - seems like i may need to.

This is what I'm getting with 7 values:

(https://i.imgur.com/5RYjg80.png?3)

It's not possible with DiagRA either without a2l or disassembly to find ram values + firmware patches to even enable mode 23.
Good luck with that.

Yes i mean Bflash, works fast.
But like PRJ says limited in logable values.

Does anyone know the size of the stock MPI injectors of a CJX engine?

Johan

120cc (pretty sure )

Thanks!

Ahem, cough cough.....

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/c61d5175e00b17ef3b8e9afcb41b1c68.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/468b6e0fd4e2d3e8cbc41529243dd5a0.jpg)

Bosch 1000 cc plug ‘n play only need adapter for connector.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

If you're running stock mpi injectors and stock fuelling strategy then I suggest you drill the fitting to a max of 2.5mm that will be enough to stabilise the lpfp readings  any more any you can end up with erratic lp duty . However if you implement the mpi injectors and run the rail from the hpfp brass fitting then 5mm seems to work.

Also these injectors are rated at 3bar and depending on the ECU version the lp is from 5 to 7 bar .

Hows everyone getting on with running the larger injectors? just about to head down this road myself, and would love some help

Nice first post, and how are YOU helping out the community if I may ask?

question do you have a calculation to convert the maf (map in photo) into turbo pressure?

That is air/Nm maps and not load.

Can someone help me activate MPI inj and make it work under full load together with DI in this A4 B9 usa file? i am trying make it myself using maps from CBMD-Combustion modes, LASP-Lambda setpoint, modules. But still no success. I am willing pay for it
8W0906259J__0002

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No load maps on these cars

Come on guys - just because load is expressed in mg/stroke instead of RL does not change what it is.

Taking the two ECU families - MAF_STK and rl_w are exactly the same thing and these maps you are looking at are basically KFMIRL and KFMIOP.

Point taken.

 

Hello ! thank's for your work anyone tel me map for E85 mod ont this simos ? have Golf 7 CS tune too 357 i would try if stock fuel system is ok for stage 1 + e85 Without mpi hack

thank's you

the FR will tell you which map(s) is used to enable ethanol.

got a ASAP A2L for calibration and data measurement

I have a few also. How is that going to help ?

Hello if you have a chat group for fueling simos, i would like to join this one. thx a lot

someone successfully activated MPI at full load ?

Lots of us have.

Yes but how .? :-\

I am trying to do this too.

Where do I change the NC_AFU_CONF ? I can not seem to find anything in the Damos

I've tried reaching out to a few of the people that replied here early on, but can't get anybody.

What I've been able to gather, to get the NA ECU to play with MPI, the fueling needs to be set to MPI + DI, and the MPI needs to be enabled in the relevant combustion modes.  Assuming of course the ASW has the relevant capability.

My damos has:
"Codeword MPI mode" - bit 0, switching DI/MPI mixed, and bit 1, switch for wobbling during MPI mode
  - The euro calibration that I looked at is 01.  My factory calibration is 00.  Ecutek references setting "MPI Mode" to 11 (which, arguably, might have absolutely nothing to do with this).  It's in

As for the enabling it during the different combustion modes - ECUtek says there should be inhibitor bits.  I can't find anything like that for MPI.  All I have are inhibitor factors for different combustion modes.  My cal matches all the euro cal values here.

I'm happy to follow breadcrumbs if someone can drop some. 

To follow up, after looking more through the FR - it looks like the Combustion mode inhibitors can be ignored by using the calibration called c_lf_cmb_mod_inh_red (in my damos) or c_lf_cmb_mod_inh_sel (from the fr).  It states: "By filling the array with 0 no inhibition requests will be allowed and by filling it with 1 all the
inhibition requests will be accepted and activated."

activating MPI via the mode switch (01, or 11), and disabling the inhibitors for MPI modes (by setting the inhibitor calibration to 0) would allow the injectors to fire (assuming they're calibrated correctly via fuel split and constants - etc?)

Also - it looks like there may be a 'global' for the cam vvti (Camshaft_EX: 0=with adjustment; 1=without adjustment).  From what I can tell in the FR, is that a bit that can be set to enable/disable the feature?  Some EA888.3's don't have the exhaust cam control and this would allow loading the 'wrong' calibration (or swapping in the hardware for a car that didn't come with it.).

Following up -

I made the changes that I mentioned above (codeword mpi, and I found the inhibitor bit field).
I also set the cmb mod

• requester to mode 9 (which, if everything I gathered was correct would trigger MPI during mode 0 request, shortly after the SAI stops during a cold start.).  I did this partly because it's what ECUtek says they do, but also because it's easier to troubleshoot the MPI if it's working at idle. 

Sure enough, the logs started to display MPI injector pulsewidth. The idle got very rough and the car wanted to die.

I've read some more and tweaked the injector constant.  It idles, but not well.  Lambda bounces between 1.1 and 1.2 with a target at 1.  It seems to smell like fuel though, so I'm not sure if they're actually firing or what.

Is there *anybody* that can help steer me in the right direction?  Possibly through PM if not openly on the forum?  Please?

One last follow up - got it all working (I think...)

Need to diff my starting and current file to see what I changed everywhere, but for those that are curious how to enable MPI on the NA motors:
1) make sure your ASW has the capability
2) enable the codeword for MPI
3) set the inhibitors appropriately (will document)
4) set the torque management tables so they call for multi injection modes instead.
5) make sure your injector constant is set correctly
6) set your min/max torque tables

5) injector constant (2 values) and TVUB also.

I'll check my work on this, thank you. I don't recall touching TVUB. 

I get a slight lean condition (deviation from target) and rpm bump as the car switches to MPI. It's for one tick in the log and it's when mpi pulse goes from 0 to something. Maybe I've missed something.

Hello

What is the ID of the Injector Constant please ?

Ip_fac_mff_ti_stnd_h_rng_mpi
8E74 in my files

Thanks. So we should just change this & the other constants when we swap to bigger MPI injectors.

Then enable more use of the MPI injection

Possibly.
Telnet402m said there's 2 places for injector constant. I've only located one.
It would be awesome if someone (littco, prj, k0mpressrd, etc) that knows more could chime in though. As I said, I got it working though I do get a lambda spike as MPI comes in.

Hello

IP_TI_ADD_DLY_MPI(VB) - this is TVUB
IP_TI_ADD_DLY_TEMP_COR_MPI(TIA_IM, MAF_MPI)

Have you adjusted these ?

If it's injecting, then your spike is bad tuning.
Run it MPI only, then DI only, make sure the fuel trim is the same in both cases. Then mix.

Thanks prj,

The spike is almost entirely gone after finding the *actual* dead times for the injectors that I'm using.  from 13-15v they were off by >.5ms (too low), so with a 4ms injection time I was missing out on a decent amount of fuel.

I'm still getting some correction, but as you state, tuning.  I'm on a hybrid with a big wheel so there's different amounts of air than the ecu expects basically at any boost level.

While not MPI related, this is the only active Simos19 thread.  I can post elsewhere if necessary.

Towards the top of 3rd I got an EPC and limp mode today. Code was P060C. Details below. 

The FR only talks about ENVD_0_MON though ENVD_3_MON.  I'm curious if anybody has any other insight as to what it might be (or how to decipher the other environmental variables). 

mff monitoring its trowing that error.

Thanks,
I also wasn't sure if it was the torque monitoring - My IP_TQI_REF_MAX_MON table was lower than my max clutch torque.  I bumped those up.

What part of the error points to MFF for you?  Is there additional documentation available for ENVD_4....6_MON?

Hi,
I'm starting to work on MPI @ WOT
Maybe this will help, i didn't tried yet
I am currently looking for other maps & usages in FR
(https://i.gyazo.com/dc9572925d7ffce601131123e6064d2c.png)

Good info.

Does your car have 8 injectors as standard or are you adding 4 ?

It's an 8 injectors Golf 7 GTI, with stock SW MPI works only during low load

Keen on trying this too. Let us know how you progress please

and i think need DI MPI split factor

I've got a list of a couple dozen maps that needed to be changed for my NA car to enable MPI.  I've compared it to EU cars and some of the changes were already there. 

I will say that many of them were combustion mode (and inhibitor) related (there's an inhibit table for every combustion mode, so there were a lot of those).  I know what changes I made but I'd like to document WHY they were changed.

Something I'm still struggling to understand...

c_n_thd_mplh_opp_max[NC_NR_CASE_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP]....
NC_NR_CASE_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP is an index of size 6

ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_1" "0"
ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_2" "1"
ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_3" "2"
ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_4" "3"
ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_5" "4"
ENUM_CMB_MOD_REQ_TQ_OPP.CASE_6" "5"

Where's the mapping of these to combustion mode (by name???).  I'd like to figure out the SCAV mode for spool. I don't believe they're modes 0-5, because not all of those are MPLH.

EDIT:
C_IDX_CMB_MOD_OPP_STND[N] I believe is the mapping to combustion mode from TQ manager.
There's 6 of those, and the 'key' to getting my MPI going was to update those so they started pointing to MPI cmb modes.

Hi,I'm trying to calibrate 980cc mpi but car no start on mpi too rich
Just for calibrate 980cc dead time and injector charateristic is enough?

You have to calibrate the injector constant too.
c_fac_mff_ti_stnd_mpi_cmb

also for alternative fuel.

I tried the 3 Maps + deadtime, but it doesn't work I have to forget about something

c_fac_mff_ti_stnd_mpi_cmb
 ip_fac_mff_ti_stnd_h_rng_mpi
ip_fac_mff_ti_stnd_mon

hello
news of how to properly activate mpi
thank

Hi everyone
small question, I managed to activate the MPI with the help of a friend, but I have a problem, as soon as the MPI exceeds 3ms, I have a cut,
my question, is there a table that limits the mpi?
I play with the factor fo SDI and limiting factor SDI tables, as soon as I want to go to 80% or below the DI, I have cuts, I have to stay at 90% of DI

Without file hard to say where you slipped...