NefMoto

Collaborative tuning effort to help Allroad tuners learn how to begin tuning their stock cars from stock bin files.  Goals are to cover some of the intricacies of flashing problems surrounding the stock 551S bin, as well as what can be applied to the TIP automatic which most of these cars were built with.

Is the stock file, 4Z7907551R.bin, 250HP or 265HP?

I'd like to contribute to this as well!  I have a 2004 Audi A4 6-speed Quattro with a BEL 2.7tt from a tiptronic 2003.5 Audi A6.  I am not entirely new to tuning but Motronic and everything it entails is definitely new to me and I'm looking forward to learning everything I can.

I've been poking around in the .xdf for the 551R that is available on Nyet's site over the past few weeks.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no english translated definition file available (.xdf) for the 551R ECU, meaning everything we look at in TunerPro (etc.) will be in the German language?  This of course means someone translated the M-box definition files?

So the only options to understand the 551R def file are to:
1. Learn german,
2. Painstakingly translate each German language scalar/table/parameter category identifier to English within TunerPro (etc.),
3. Cross-reference the older Motronic 7.1 ECU .xdfs and find out what the 'important' parameters are.

Not really.  Take a look at the other stage I projects and learn the maps that are needed by name. 

These will be a good start:

LDRXN/ZK to increase load
LAMFA for fuel enrighment
KFZW/2 for timing adjustments

I'm on-board here too.
Currently trying to work out issues with getting my 7.1.1 ECU into bootmode.
Reading over OBD is fine, but communication in bootmode (not connecting with VCDS) is not happening with Argdub's tool.
I have removed the resistor/link on the back of the board & ground out the pin as directed on the boards.

Strange thing is that after 2 minutes of not being able to communicate on the K-line with VCDS with the ECU
(My assumption being that the ECU is in Bootmode if I cannot communicate with VCDS)

-after two minutes I am able to communicate again  with VCDS.

Am I missing something here?
Am I incorrect to assume that the ECU is in fact in bootmode?

Unfortunately most of the links to directions for bootmode on the 7.1.1 on this forum link to OBDtuning.com and are dead.
Anyone got any pointers? I don't want to clog up this project initially with connectivity issues, but perhaps it might be good to address getting ME7.1.1 continuously into bootmode.   

I've had no issues getting my allroad's ecu (7.1.1) into bootmode.  I've had issues with some ecus here and there.  Sometimes you just can't do it via obdII or bootmode.  You should make another thread on this if you want to discuss it more detail.

So who's ready to start making changes and taking logs?  I already have my allroad tuned so I can provide whatever is needed kick start the process.

I can log my car tomorrow but I'm not sure if that might be wise considering my car is a bit of an odd-ball since the engine is a tiptronic BEL swapped into a 6-speed B6 A4.  It's a 551R file.

That, and I've never logged before and don't really know what I'm doing yet.

Anyway, the offer stands.

Maybe we could compare the following values in your tuned ECU against those of a stock ECU?
As noted prior:
LDRXN/ZK to increase load
LAMFA for fuel enrighment
KFZW/2 for timing adjustments

Step one would be to get some stock logs anyway.  I can post up the ME7 Logger config file that I use when I log my allroad.

The values in my ecu wouldn't be totally applicable as my car is tuned a little beyond that of what a typical stage I would be.   I will still provide some examples.  Hopefully I can get to that tonight.

Attached is the ME7Logger config file that I use for my allroad.  This should cover just about every variable that you'd need to look at for a stage I tune.

Will do SB, I have tried several times and not had any joy. Will start a new topic over on the ME7_95040 EEPROM programmer thread. I had the the similar problems to B6T initially, but figured out running the program from the root directory was the trick.

btw. thanks for the response in the Noob guide & FAQ

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5068.msg58493#msg58493 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5068.msg58493#msg58493)

It was one of the better and concise posts to help locate to Immo data in the hex code

I also wrote a EEProm tool into visualme7logger so you don't have to think about it.  Makes for easy cloning.

What about the .ecu file?

Since there are potential issues reading the original file from an allroad with nefmoto, attached is the original bin file that we will tune in this project.  I found it on nyet's site.  http://nyet.org/cars/files/stock/

You will then use ME7Logger (me7info really) to create the ecu file from this bin.  With VisualME7Logger, here's the step by step.

1) Tools -> Create ECU file.  Select the attached bin file.  Click OK to loading the ecu file now.
2) File -> Load Config File.  Select the previously attached config file.  You will notice a bunch of the measurements are now selected.
3) File -> Save Settings.  This will save the selected ECU file and config file settings for the next time you open visual logger.

Provided that you have all of the communication settings correct in Options screen, you should be able to log now.  There is a chance that your allroad does not have the 551R file on the ecu, and in that case, this won't work.  You have two options:
1) Write this stock 551R file to your ecu with Nefmoto (even though this is an original file, please verify the checksums before writing)
2) Read the file from your ecu with Nefmoto and use that as the bin file in the above step 1.  Keep in mind, for this project you will have to switch to 551R anyway and there are also potential issues with reading the ecu with nefmoto on these allroads, so I would just recommend flashing the 551R file to your ecu if that's not the file that's already on it.

Good that you mentioned that.  My car has a 551R ECU but it had been flashed with the 551S file.  So after I had finished reading out the .bin with nefmoto a few weeks ago, my car wouldn't start.  I flashed it with the exact file you posted and it's been running perfectly normal ever since.

In other words, I'll be logging my car with the exact same 551R file that you posted.

Until then, I'm going in to the garage to hook up a boost gauge.

Hopefully I can contribute to this but need to sort out some things with the air ride first. Are we going to follow the current Stage 1 build thread for the 2.7t?

Basically.   But I think we can do our own thing in this project.  Ldrxn, lamfa and kfzw to start and see where that gets us.

What do you need to sort out?

No base logs yet?

I tried to get the .ecu file to generate but failed and haven't been able to do any reading as to why or what I'm doing wrong (or what I'm doing at all, for that matter).

It doesn't matter anyway because we got 30cm of snow last night which sort of impedes any logging activity up here in the great white north.

Are you using visualme7logger to create the ecu file or just using the cmd line with me7info?  If you are using vme7l it could be a stupid windows permission thing.  Make sure to run vme7l "as adminstrator".  The other thing is that you need to run vme7l from the me7logger directory, so make sure to copy it into that directory first.   Perhaps I need to make a installer for vme7l to help avoid these types of issues.

My logs won't be much good at this point I've got a couple gasket leaks to sort out as well as a few other odds and ends + snow.

OK,

Attached is my me7L run on a BEL Tip. Two pulls in 3rd WOT, it's difficult to get the revs low because of tc slippage.
First run 2K to 6.3K - 2nd from 3K to 6.1K

The car has 150K on the engine and is completely stock & mechanically very good running the 551R stock file posted on the first page by SB_GLI (the checksums are fine) and logging using the allroad.cfg file also posted by SB_GLI on the first page.

Point of note:

-the allroad.cfg file posted and used with me7L has to be edited to run the 551R ecu, instead of the 551S it is posted with.
-my bank 1 EGT is toast, so the attached file may be invalid. I'm planning to change it out and log some more pulls by the weekend.

Well I've gotten this far, just got to figure everything else out.
Guess ECUxplot is next  :)

All input welcome, how is everyone else getting on?

Please post the original csv that was created by ME7Logger.  This file was opened in some other editor and saved, so it won't work with VisualME7Logger the way it is.  Also, if you use VisualME7Logger, you don't have to worry about modifying the cfg file manually as the program will do it for you.

For the sake of saving some cash, you could code out the egt sensors instead of buying and installing new ones.

In reviewing the log, looks like it the boost is low and it's over fueling due to your egt issue.  So these logs aren't a good "stock" example.

Post the .cfg and .ecu fies you used and I will log my car.  I'm running the same 551R file as you (which I got from Nyet's site).

My car runs perfectly fine so I should be able to get clean logs from it.

You can generate your own ecu file with your bin.  I posted the cfg earlier in this thread.  Use VisualME7Logger to do this and it's super easy.  No command line or file editing required. 

So attached is the original .csv file from vME7L. I used MS Office 2003 to open the file and i suspect the problem lay there.
Having had a play with ecuxplot, i now see that the pertinent data with the filter is from 4K to redline - i was trying to pull from low revs to redline. I am eager to try and generate a good stock baseline before proceeding.
I have lots of spare egt's lying around and fitted a replacement earlier to bank1 - the nice side ;D
Also fitted a set of BKR7EIX plugs -going to try a a few more runs when the snow clears, got whited-out this afternoon.

B6T - how are you getting on? I'm running XP & besides a few cable issues have had a minimum of bashing my head off the nearest wall. Where/at what point are you having issues with Me7L / VisualMe7L? From SB's instructions on the first page, I found it non-problematic to generate the .ecu file.
The .cfg file to use is posted by SB on the first page.

So was looking a little further into the distance, as i understand moving forward; a possible route is to read the sticky .pdf posted  here

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3539.msg35889#msg35889

can someone tell me if I am moving in the right direction?

Also have been doing a little more research on Tunerpro, what XDF file/files should we be looking at for the 551R bin that we are using?

I like the fact that with this project involving ME7.1.1 BEL, the reward will be the effort put in - there definitely is not as much scope for shortcuts as there might be with ME7.1



 

Ive got a stock '03 a6 2.7t 6sp. I want to get a stage 1 file on it but i am unable to start from scratch. Im anxious to see what you guys come up with. Did you need more stock logs? When do we start making map changes?  :)

Why?

To me it is hard to see what maps need to be edited to make a complete tune. I can handle the changes to lamfa data and axis. Ive seen that done in the other stage 1 apb thread. I dont know what the ldrxn load numbers should look like tuned compared to stock. I have 2 ldxrn maps: ldrxn_0_A and ldrxn_1_A whats the difference? and as for kfzw and kfzw2 i dont know where to start in modifying them. I could edit lamfa and if i knew some ldrxn values i could load those on and log what i find. Would that be a good start?

Did you read the wiki? There is a formula you can use to get an idea of what LDRXN equals what boost.

LDRXN_0_A is Manual
LDRXN_1_A is Tiptronic

Just make the same changes to both and you're fine.

If you asked APR this, they wouldn't know the difference either.  But they'd still sell you a "tune" with only the Tiptronic LDRXN changed. ::)

Make small changes in ldrxn and log before and after.  You'll get the hang of it after a few flashes.

Is this the same in general for different ME7 ecu's?

Yes and no. _0_A maps are usually VARDEF. _1_A are variant coding.

Seeing as how it's been about a decade since they last did any work on a 2.7T tune I'm not surprised.

This is very useful info, but somehow I never came across it in my searches.  Instead, I figured it out through educated experimentation (changes to LDRXN_0_A were having no effect on my 04 Tip).  

I'd like to contribute to this project, but my car is already Stg3 (F21BT/T) and I've been working on the tune myself using the 551S image.  I've figured a number of things out with the 551S image and made updates/corrections to the XDF I started with from here, if that might be of help to anyone?  I've yet to do a full disassembly, though.

Hello guys, Glad I found this page for the BEL.  I tried doing a stage 1 tune on my 2003 A6 6spd when the thread for the M box was firsts starting up. I ended up changing my ldrxn values a little bit and my lamfaw (i think)  I gave up after killing my car.. Had to use boot mode with Galletto 1260. Crashed my VCDS which really sucks. But I got my car up and running and have just been ok. Now I am about to go stage 3 and figured I would go ahead and start at the beginning and just add a few more things to the list, like changing my injectors to ev14 740cc and what ever I have to do to allow for my RS6s going in..  I will try to keep the page updated with anything I do.  I decided to just start with a fresh 551r file.    Side note: My ecu was marked 551r but had a 551s file on it.

M-box is me7.1.  the 2003 allroad uses me7.1.1.  not compatible.  Stick to the R or S and you will be golden.

Also, make sure you understand this:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=981.0

but mostly this:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6719.0

Thanks for that info. I do realize that the M box and R are not compatible but I figured I could take what I was learning and apply as best as I could. Some maps have different names for sure and I find myself slowly learning  German, Or at least using my translator lol. Right not I am in the process of trying to code for the EV14 740cc @3bar injectors.

maybe this is a very nooob question. I have a 05 BEL allroad with a 4Z7907551T ecu. Can it be flashed with this "R" file? I would like to learn about working with these tune files.

Yes.

Only slightly related, does anyone know what the differences are between a 551R and a 551S?  I've been tuning the 551S because that's what came on my 04 Tip, but I don't really know what changed from the 551R.  There's certainly more info available for the 551R (namely the torque variables), so I've been tempted to switch.

Hey guys, I have a BEL 03 allroad. I initally was digging into nefmoto on a long winter vacation weekend, but then I got caught up with my other car, an 05 Legacy GT, in making that car stage 3 and tuning with RomRaider, I was distracted. My AR came with the S-box which has some notorious flashing problems. The best bet for this thread is using the R variant, as it known to cause less need for boot mode repair. I've been working with a R.xdf and trying to correct address errors as I go. One of the largest differences between the R-box and the M-box that has been community tuned, in my mind, is the stock linearization of KFLDIMX, which can makes matching your PID to WGDCs a little tricky. I've only been able to find one decent explanation for how to go about tuning the boost PID and that was in the archives:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6030.0;wap2 (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6030.0;wap2)

Here is the xdf. It is unusually large, so I can't add it as an attachment.


https://mega.nz/#!nkQ01LhS!YeLVHkJOqgM8QTsUQ0WMrSyomh5VNPmFJOcUbYR7azg (https://mega.nz/#!nkQ01LhS!YeLVHkJOqgM8QTsUQ0WMrSyomh5VNPmFJOcUbYR7azg)

edit: dl now has encryption key with it

Tested link for .xdf it is working now. I'm also trying to model my WG properly with a stage .75 ish tune. If I am successful I'll post up the changes I made in the R

Is your exhaust still stock? Unless youve changed things majorly like removed the precats and cats you probably wont need any adjustments in boost pid calibration.

Subscribing for more updates. I really hope this takes off.

What happened here?  This thread was going well, but stopped.  I'm starting to tune a buddies Allroad tip, and will if I can offer anything, I'm happy to contribute.  Still in the early stages of learning, but I'm willing and able.

IM IN ON THIS TOTALLY! Ive got all the files needed starting to tune the 551r stock bin here soon any new news anyone willing to bring to the table?

Yes, it's been years.. But I've got to ask, did anyone continue with their ME7.1.1 Allroad (BEL/BES) ECU Stage X project?
Would like to hear from others from this topic or generally just from others that have this ECU with with a BEL/BES engine.

I've been trying to learn my original .BIN tune from a BES Allroad with the 4Z7907551R.XDF. For example the LAMFA table
looks weird, axis for RPM is clear but the other axis has values going from 128.135 -> 152.356 ->... (see attached picture).
Inserted values are 99% 1.0001 which I assume is "Lambda 1/~AFR 14.7". Ideally, would be nice to understand these values
in the table and to be able to change them to get, e.g. "Lambda 0.81/~AFR 11.90" for some areas/loads.

So, someone surely has the knowledge on how to start and continue with this Allroad ME7 tune?

in my xdf the axis is 1ED45 which is likely wrong. Usually axis data is 16 bit aligned. Try 1ED44 or 1ED46

this sort of off by one error is common in automated conversions.

Thanks nyet!

More dumb questions.. 1ED44 and 1ED46 do look better, question is, which one should I use?
And should I multiply it somehow, so it wouldn't start with a 0.xxx? (Attached pictures again...)

After solving this axis, how do I convert/write/type/do magic to have the table show me AFR values?
Would be useful, to be able to "throw 12.00 here and 14.7 there".
Yes, dumb and no00b, not 100% FR has been read.. but would like to have some progress.

The  other lamfa axis is mrfa, not any kind of lambda or anything like that. The map shows you lambda values which is correct and what you wanna use instead of AFR. That said you can make a second defintion with the afr conversion factor, but like many others and I said use lambda values instead.


AFAIK , loads of mappacks have the lamfa axis wrong, so nothing out from ordinary.

1ED44 is more likely.

1.000 isn't that useful for a 0-1 axis since the column value is extrapolated if the input is over the last one, in this case .9, so 0.9-1.0 would result in the same value if the last column was 1.0

Like Blazius says, you should likely start thinking in lambda, not AFR, if you are serious about tuning.

If you are unwilling to, copy the map def to a second definition, and multiply the z scale by 14.7. All of the 1.0001 values should show up as 14.7 instead.

If you look at the my M box xdf it does something simliar (iirc).

As far as mrfa goes, my posts will end here. You have a ton of reading to do and any further spoon feeding i do is not doing you any favors.

Thanks Blazius and nyet for the input,

I'll keep thinking in terms of lambda, no problem there.
Thankfully, this initial spoon feeding sparked my interest and I'll continue from here ;)

With that said, if there's other Allroad owners listening, do make some noise to keep
this thread alive, if there is something still to come  :D

Allroad is a beast of a car ( maybe I am biased but w/e), yes it might have been the most unreliable audi vehicle :D but most of that came that to bad maintenance. It was the first car based "suv" to complete landrover proving grounds afaik.

for some motivation maybe watch this :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kiTATLaxq0

In the interest of keeping this thread alive I'll chime in.  I just picked up a totally stock '05 allroad with 103k on the clock after building and tuning rotaries for the past 15 years, as a business I design and integrate engine management and data acquisition packages for race vehicles so I'd say that I'm familiar with the tuning aspect of a vehicle, HOWEVER, this will be my first foray into the Bosch/Motronic world which is honestly like a different language so in the future when I'm a little more stable on terminology and familiar with the software packages most of you/us seem to use I'd like to be involved.

Nothing else to say other than, so...hi.

Hey all I made an account just to say i'm interested.  Longtime 2001 S4 owner, fairly recent purchase 2002 AR 2.7 tip with about 80,000 miles, basically bone stock. 

I've been reading about nefmoto and lemmiwinks on quattroworld since like 2007, finally decided it's time to get my hands dirty.  Trying to read up and learn as fast as I can.

i could be wrong but i think your engine code is apb not bel. i think 2003 was the switchover. like i said i could be wrong. look at the s4 2.7t community project that would be more suited for your engine code. bel is me7.1.1 and apb is me7.1 engine harness, ecu, egt sensors and a handful of other things changed between the engine codes

I believe 02 is 4Z7907551L/M
03 is R/S

thanks Marty and nyet.  You are probably right? I think I'm 7.1 based on what I'm reading so I'm still interested but posting in the wrong thread :-)

vag-com says that's what's under my hood - 4Z7 907 551 M  so I will go back to looking in the B5 S4 threads ;-0

does anyone have a link to the fully defined 551r xdf the link prior no longer seems to be valid

I'm going to drag this back from the grave yet again. This was a great project idea, and I would love to contribute

https://files.s4wiki.com/defs/4Z7907551R.xdf

To hopefully make an attempt to kick this off again, I will start with what I know. I believe the thought processes should be the same as the S4 Stage 1 community project, just like was stated years ago. A tune for beginners to follow along with. I myself am still pretty new and have a lot to learn, but I am determined to at least create something for myself that I can share with this community, and while a build type thread may work, this thread seemed like a good fit. I am here to learn, not beg for tunes. That being said, I am still new to this and any direction for those of you who know more is appreciated.

My personal goals are to create a stage 1 and 1+ tune for factory equipment, catered more to tiptronics.

In no particular order here are some points I have either learned or still need to be addressed before we get too far:
1.) We have this XDF available with a small handful of English translations. I haven't educated myself on how to continue this work and with it being a 551S, I don't even know if its worth it. Hopefully someone can point us in the right directions with that. If I can find the post again, I will credit the member that has uploaded this.

2.) The 551S flash is less than ideal from what I have gathered. We will need to use the 551R flash. From my understanding, 551S is known to cause some flashing issues (unknown if that's specific to Nefmoto or in general). If times have progressed along enough to make this a non issue, awesome, but current to date info is sparse.

3.) The M7.1.1 seems to be a bit of a problem child for some, specifically surrounding bootmode. I am waiting for a new galeto cable to confirm I am in bootmode (VCDS-Lite does not connect, but I want to be safe) before I share how I have been doing it. 

I've attached the files I think are important to get us started.

Continuing on, I have flashed over to 551R. Currently researching if we are able to use a 551S xdf for a 551r bin so we can ultilize the partial english xdf that has been made available in the last zip folder. If anyone knows if this is a possibility, please chime in.

Started on a simple OEM+ 551R bin just slightly raising boost. not sure why I am getting checksum errors. Attached the bin.

Disregard, I was using the me7sum tool incorrectly, I believe we are good to continue with the 551r xdf and bin. I will refresh the "OEM+" tune, and start logging as time permits over the next few days. I will report back soon.

Does anyone know the correct location of CATR in the 4Z7907551R bin?
Thanks.

CATR 8bit 199B6
KFRLATR 5x5 8bit 199C3

Thats what I have in my XDF too.. but someone marked CATR as incorrectly located.
Possibly as its set at 03 and not as 01 as most other bins?

Anyone else making some movement on this?

Created a bin that slightly raised boost and carry peak a little further though the rev range via LDRXN. For my first real application, I know its 100% safe, and it worked well. This left me ready to move on to a true stage 1. In doing so I realized I was having trouble finding the LAMFA axis. A quick search has found this XDF, posted (not created to my knowledge) by user MNZ in 2014. I suggest anyone following as a noob use this XDF to begin a true stage one. Reference the s4wiki tuning page and the s4 stage 1 community project to learn why LAMFA is important. I will be running my "OEM+" tune for a few days while I wait for a chance to replace my front axle and do some more cleaning ect to the car.

Stage 1 written following the S4 community project is done. Will flash and begin logging soon!

Various other projects of mine have taken precedence so the Allroad has been 'reduced' to daily status.  I'd love to collab, however I definitely need to finish my MGB swap before I open up another can of worms.

Attached is a log from my stock 05 allroad tip, 150k miles, version T.  It feels pretty healthy.

cam changeover is not smooth...

After a pretty exhausting 2 years now of moving, changing jobs, etc, the allroad sat on the back burner as well. Happy to report the family is now settled into the home we recently bought, and life is much more stable. Recently have gotten back to working on the audi and on this project. Unfortunately there are some things I need to re-learn and I got sidetracked for a bit trying to sort out a the stereotypical "burble" tune, but, I'm now ready to dive back in. I'll get some logs done over the next few days on my revised stage 1, and hopefully I can spark back up some interest.

I picked up a 03 AR tip with 210k for $800 about 2 weeks ago, driven by a granny. Last night had a bad experience with flashing a 551S file but managed to get it done with P1681 disabled file I found on s4wiki to code out EGTs using a translated xdf from a 551s, no codes for it but the car feels nearly the same from stock, super excited to see this thread still alive and kicking! Let's go stage 1 and up builds, I guess I'll look and see if I actually coded these out right, VCDS doesn't show them faulty anymore so maybe? I zeroed out all of their values  :P