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k0mpresd
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« on: July 08, 2016, 02:11:49 PM »
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this is something i have never played with before.
how much more powerful/faster and/or lighter does a car (vehicle in general) have to be before ARMD starts to become an issue?
me17.8.5 seadoo has "Code word anti jerk function, CWARMD". 03 > 00 i assume will disable it completely.
just curious since it is such a quick revving engine if turning it off would have any type of positive gains.
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prj
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 03:12:59 PM »
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It is never an issue when set up right.
I don't think most people realize what it does - it checks for drivetrain bucking and does not let it get into resonance.
On cars with light flywheels that's when for example sharply coming off throttle, taking off or coming on throttle and back on again.
Without ARMD the car will buck back and forth.
Just adjust KFDMDARO etc so that the delta torque has to be very high at high load. This will shut off the function completely at high load, as it will not trigger.
ARMD does not get triggered by a "fast car". ARMD is triggered by delta torque swing.
On a car with a lot of power, the load is very high and even a little bit of knock or timing change will already trigger it due to the delta torque being much higher than on a standard tuned car. It will then go into a feedback loop as delta torque keeps jumping up and down and it gets triggered over and over again.
You can either adjust KFDMDARO to suit or just disable the function altogether at high torque. I would not turn it off at low load though. It makes the car a lot better and less jerky to drive.
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nyet
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 03:24:15 PM »
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You can either adjust KFDMDARO to suit or just disable the function altogether at high torque. I would not turn it off at low load though. It makes the car a lot better and less jerky to drive.
2nd. I only numb ARMD at high torque. That said, very light cars (compared to stock weight) will trigger ARMD more than heavy cars; there is an "expected" RPM model based on integrating torque.. not just delta torque. If expected RPM is outside of that (in this example, because the car is lighter than the RPM model expects), ARMD will trigger. I could be wrong though, as usual, so YMMV. |
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 03:27:27 PM by nyet »
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 03:37:10 PM »
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It is never an issue when set up right.
I don't think most people realize what it does - it checks for drivetrain bucking and does not let it get into resonance.
On cars with light flywheels that's when for example sharply coming off throttle, taking off or coming on throttle and back on again.
Without ARMD the car will buck back and forth.
Just adjust KFDMDARO etc so that the delta torque has to be very high at high load. This will shut off the function completely at high load, as it will not trigger.
ARMD does not get triggered by a "fast car". ARMD is triggered by delta torque swing.
On a car with a lot of power, the load is very high and even a little bit of knock or timing change will already trigger it due to the delta torque being much higher than on a standard tuned car. It will then go into a feedback loop as delta torque keeps jumping up and down and it gets triggered over and over again.
You can either adjust KFDMDARO to suit or just disable the function altogether at high torque. I would not turn it off at low load though. It makes the car a lot better and less jerky to drive.
thank you. i am only mainly concerned with it on the seadoo, since it is pretty much idle or wot, not much in between, figured off all together may be ok. |
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nyet
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 03:45:08 PM »
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I think the main problem is that everyone seems to want to disable torque monitoring everywhere, which is dumb. The whole point to torque monitoring is smooth part throttle, which is why torque modeling ECUs were designed in the first place.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 03:46:21 PM »
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I think the main problem is that everyone seems to want to disable torque monitoring everywhere, which is dumb. The whole point to torque monitoring is smooth part throttle. yes, i understand. im just going for max acceleration here. there is no part throttle when i ride.  |
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 03:50:26 PM »
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im just going for max acceleration here. there is no part throttle when i ride. Absolutely. |
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Tshirt2k
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2016, 11:59:56 PM »
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I've got a similar light stripped out track car under 1000kg with 6kg/13lb flywheel an engine conversion. DARO DAROS DADP raised on the last lines I'm still experiencing timing swings of upto 10 deg. As a test, I FF'd TMAR and the car came alive. Better acceleration (less numbed ) and timing showed a ripple in comparison on the logs. Wondering if it's worth just leaving it like that myself as 100 on the last lines still results in zwist = zwsol.  |
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nubcake
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 05:04:05 AM »
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I've got a similar light stripped out track car under 1000kg with 6kg/13lb flywheel an engine conversion. DARO DAROS DADP raised on the last lines I'm still experiencing timing swings of upto 10 deg. As a test, I FF'd TMAR and the car came alive. Better acceleration (less numbed ) and timing showed a ripple in comparison on the logs. Wondering if it's worth just leaving it like that myself as 100 on the last lines still results in zwist = zwsol. If it's a dedicated track car - sure, why not. But if you still want part-throttle to be tolerable - figure out what's up. Timing is only a secondary indication. The main var that you want to log is "dmar_w" - basically it's delta torque applied by ARMD. You want it to be zero at WOT, obviously. If it's not, start back-tracing it, why exactly it's not zero. Log mkar_w (which is an input to KFDMDA* maps along with gangi) and confirm that you're hitting cells that you expect to. If you aren't - well, figure out what's up with mkar_w (something's probably wrong with your mifa_w or MDVER function). It's really ALL in the FR. That being said, I couldn't "digest" those graphs until I went step-by-step over the code itself, taking notices of what goes where, why and when. |
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« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 05:07:15 AM by nubcake »
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carsey
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2016, 06:33:20 AM »
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Id disable the whole lot, even the temperature maps. Mines completely mapped out and dont get any bucking or jerking on part load or anything. And mines a full on track car with 3.5kg flywheel.
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Tshirt2k
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2016, 08:29:36 AM »
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If it's a dedicated track car - sure, why not.
But if you still want part-throttle to be tolerable - figure out what's up.
Timing is only a secondary indication. The main var that you want to log is "dmar_w" - basically it's delta torque applied by ARMD. You want it to be zero at WOT, obviously. If it's not, start back-tracing it, why exactly it's not zero. Log mkar_w (which is an input to KFDMDA* maps along with gangi) and confirm that you're hitting cells that you expect to. If you aren't - well, figure out what's up with mkar_w (something's probably wrong with your mifa_w or MDVER function).
It's really ALL in the FR. That being said, I couldn't "digest" those graphs until I went step-by-step over the code itself, taking notices of what goes where, why and when.
Part throttle has improved since disabling it. Seems much smoother. The problem arises when trying to log as me7logger doesn't have those variables for my ECU. So the fault finding halts. There are many variables I'd like to be able to log but without disassembling it can't happen.  |
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nyet
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2016, 09:23:24 AM »
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MDVER is what needs calibration if you've lightened the car significantly and you want to keep part throttle ARMD.
For a dedicated track (or strip) car, I don't see any reason to keep ARMD at all.
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2016, 09:24:44 AM »
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There are many variables I'd like to be able to log but without disassembling it can't happen.
I'm pretty confident you have the ability to learn how to disassemble the code and find RAM locations |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2016, 09:33:06 AM »
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thanks for all the replies and info.
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2016, 10:45:40 AM »
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Great discussion. Glad to see they're still possible, as it's been a while.
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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