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Author Topic: Copyright infringment vs threft  (Read 25487 times)
gman86
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« on: July 14, 2016, 04:33:25 PM »

Yawn. Clone tool basher on cue.

ME7 is boot mode, not BDM
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 05:25:04 PM »

Yawn. Clone tool basher on cue.

ME7 is boot mode, not BDM

my $ and all the other people who support and pay developers for genuine tools are what allow you leechers to have clones in the first place.
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Carsinc
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 09:04:10 AM »

I for one dont intend to leach forever
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 11:27:17 AM »

I for one dont intend to leach forever

Just until you start to tune cars that your clone won't flash. Smiley
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
k0mpresd
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 11:31:13 AM »

i prefer to think you can never have too many tools.  Smiley
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gman86
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 02:42:31 AM »

my $ and all the other people who support and pay developers for genuine tools are what allow you leechers to have clones in the first place.

Leechers? So you're telling me you decided to get into tuning and straight away bought a legit OLS license and an original tool? Don't talk shit. I'm not a tuner, I'm a hobbiest. I tune my own cars and maybe the odd friends if they're game for a laugh. I'm not up for dropping 6 or 7k on tools that I'll only be using 1% of the protocols. If I decided to do it commercially, I'd want the support and reliability that original tools provide so would then invest. I think you'll find the majority of folk would go via this route too. Think about clones as being shareware.

If clones didn't exist, you'd find there wouldn't be nearly as many original sales as there are.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 08:32:20 AM »

ah, yes, the "justifiable stealing" excuse is always my favorite.

"well, the line was really long and i was in an extreme hurry. i just didnt have the time to wait, so i just walked out. next time, ill pay."

you always have the option to use free(ly) available tools. i actually use several of them. nefmoto is extremely stable flashing me7 with vcds hexcan and me7sum works on files i dont have the correct ols dll for and files that ecufix doesnt recognize.

and to wrap this fully back around to the start. the OP was the one that said he had an original galletto. maybe you missed that part. so either way, my original statement still holds true.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 08:38:31 AM by k0mpresd » Logged
gman86
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2016, 08:58:41 AM »

ah, yes, the "justifiable stealing" excuse is always my favorite.

"well, the line was really long and i was in an extreme hurry. i just didnt have the time to wait, so i just walked out. next time, ill pay."

you always have the option to use free(ly) available tools. i actually use several of them. nefmoto is extremely stable flashing me7 with vcds hexcan and me7sum works on files i dont have the correct ols dll for and files that ecufix doesnt recognize.

and to wrap this fully back around to the start. the OP was the one that said he had an original galletto. maybe you missed that part. so either way, my original statement still holds true.

There's a massive difference between not licensing a product and stealing a physical entity.

If you can find me a freely available tool to write to MED9, I'm all ears.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2016, 09:24:26 AM »

There's a massive difference between not licensing a product and stealing a physical entity.

If you can find me a freely available tool to write to MED9, I'm all ears.

no, there is literally zero difference. stealing is stealing. it doesnt matter if its physical or digital theft.
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gman86
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 09:54:47 AM »

no, there is literally zero difference. stealing is stealing. it doesnt matter if its physical or digital theft.

Don't be ridiculous. If that was the case, why is copyright infringement not prosecuted under common law? Quite simply because it's completely different. Copyright infringement is just that - copyright infringement. There's no deprivation of an item. I've not removed something from someone - especially if it's something that, as a hobby user, I'm not going to buy anyway. There is no property deprivation. If I broke into MPPS HQ and removed a box with a lead and legit software, then I'd be stealing. But I'm not. You can try and argue the point but general and legal definition of theft says you're wrong.

If you're sitting there on your soap box telling me you've never used counterfeit / torrented software / warez or even music, then you're a down right liar.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 10:07:17 AM »

Don't be ridiculous. If that was the case, why is copyright infringement not prosecuted under common law? Quite simply because it's completely different. Copyright infringement is just that - copyright infringement. There's no deprivation of an item. I've not removed something from someone - especially if it's something that, as a hobby user, I'm not going to buy anyway. There is no property deprivation. If I broke into MPPS HQ and removed a box with a lead and legit software, then I'd be stealing. But I'm not. You can try and argue the point but general and legal definition of theft says you're wrong.

If you're sitting there on your soap box telling me you've never used counterfeit / torrented software / warez or even music, then you're a down right liar.

we are back to the "justifiable theft" argument again. "well, i wasnt going to buy it anyways, so it doesnt matter that i stole it".

we can go at this until we are both dead. it is, simply put, theft. that is the long and short of it. it doesnt matter if you think its ok, why or why not for whatever reason, just dont lie to yourself about it.
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nyet
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 11:41:37 AM »

Quote
Definition of theft. 1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of

If you don't delete the original, it isn't theft. It's copyright infringement, but only if it is unpermitted distribution of a copy.

You might argue it is "as immoral as theft" but that is a matter of personal opinion.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 12:51:44 PM »

i would assume, as people that probably all likely work with some type of software/hardware development, that we would all agree that it is theft, no matter how you slice it.

maybe im wrong. i think i my opinion is obvious.
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gman86
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 04:05:31 AM »

i would assume, as people that probably all likely work with some type of software/hardware development, that we would all agree that it is theft, no matter how you slice it.

maybe im wrong. i think i my opinion is obvious.

I work with both hardware and software development, and it's not theft. Nyet's definition is bang on the money. Theft is deprivation of property. No property is being deprived here - and money doesn't count before the pedant kicks in.
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 09:32:26 AM »

i must be a minority being in favor of supporting developers that supply tools, both hardware and software.

still not sure why. i can almost guarantee none of you work for free.
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