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prj
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« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2017, 10:05:54 AM »
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Temp then, the bane of which people speak! According to the 4.2 LSU documentation, the sensors can run sustained 930*C temps with a 1030*C max for short periods. I'm not sure of sensor differences but I'm inclined to believe these are applicable, at least for this example, for the mk5 R32, as the manifold lambda correction/BTS maps have a 900C limit;  mk5 R32 Stationary manifold exhaust gas correction by Rick B, on Flickr The NA BTS maps are completely irrelevant once you turbo it. The problem is pressure affecting the reading. |
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Nick_T
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« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2017, 12:21:15 PM »
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Howsit PRJ, are you refering to all the bts maps? If so why do you say that? Also, is there any possibility that someone can point out exactly what needs to be changed in the ASM coding for forced induction? And to go with that, if there is anyone that is interested in doing those ASM coding mods for me, please email me a price. Not tuning, just the mods. (including the mono lambda patch).
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Mikhail
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« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2017, 10:00:37 PM »
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I think PRJ means, that vw has tested NA engine exhaust temperatures and put those maps. Now with turbo those temperatures are something else.
I don't have afr gauge so I don't know how much lambda reads wrong under boost. But if someone has afr gauge then should be easy to shift desired lambda a bit to get it ok.
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Nick_T
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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2017, 03:06:13 AM »
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Thanks Mikhail! Im getting a wideband gauge this evening! I saw on another thread that you asked about the initial rich afr when first going WOT. Did u manage to fix the issue?
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RBPE
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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2017, 11:18:41 AM »
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I was predominantly referencing the who-hah about "they'll melt!" when evidently people have run them like this for years. Give the info, let the people make their minds up!
In layman's terms yes, they should be aware of lambda limit's as there are NA to FI differences - kind of the point I was getting at with the ignition - no good setting something to 0.7 if the limit is 0.75 in BTS!
Also, with reference to the actual question being asked by the OP and those looking into it, PRJ's basically trying to get you to look into the differences between NA and FI in terms of SY_TURBO/SY_EGFE.
I've added info here but you can also reference the FS' in the BGSZS/BGSRM areas, although the point I was getting at earlier is that there are different ways to go about modelling/compensating for these changes. I'll have to go into detail some other time although I've mentioned a few things and you should probably read the 2nd/3rd post down in my noob guide evolution post which explains the basics.
I've added some info on it here too Nick/others, plus a mk5 file (don't flash it without cs) and the maps/functions for it in csv form which should all/90%+ be correct. I'll let you translate though, I can read most of them in German nowadays!
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 07:04:19 AM by RBPE »
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2017, 01:49:53 AM »
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NIck_T You said to me you master Arduino. I have biuld my own AFR/EGT Rpm based logger with a Java logging system that i run on my 3.2T. What I do is that I logg Lamda and EGTs and adjust fuel accordingly. I have also disabled alot of safety functions in my ECU to get rid of things that will prevent me from get more power. I have lost all the benefits of this ECU but if i buy a standalone I would not have had them anyway. I have plans to extend this arduino platform to be able to control boost and cut boost if EGTs and AFR goes of limits under certain circumstances. VEMS.hu sells an already assebled unit that also can be used..
Took me a long time to get it all right though.. First i had problems with hesitation and jerks and other myterious stuff but now the respones is awsome.. But it took me weeks to get the fueling right due to not be able to tune in realtime.
A tips is too look at a FI car in WinOLS and se how the strategy there is.. I look into Porsch 997T OLS file.. I found some intressting things there.
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:52:56 AM by Jim_Coupe »
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E85oholic
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Nick_T
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« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2017, 09:05:22 AM »
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RBPE, you have helped me out a tremendous amount! Thank you very much!! Really appreciated!! Woke up at 4.30am to go through what you shared!! Crap excited! I see the R32 file is quite a lot different with regards to the map locations, I thought they would have been similar. And Jim shot for the info, thats actually a awsome strat! Im a master of nothing lol My wideband has a analog output too, so il use that with egt probe...and i'll probably just steal the signal straight from the crank sensor again, atleast in that way i'll have insane sample rate! Definitely going to give it a go! Off topic, if you want to use a REALLY easy to use TFT, google nextion displays. Very very simple for graphing etc. And then i bought a obd reader from freematics, and log straight to graph on TFT. I'll post some vids tomorrow night of it. Back on track! Can you possibly be more specific on you disabled? Have you still got knock control atleast lol I agree with you with the stanalone management though, I have that option here but its not an option  I only have hesitation now with the bigger maf, not too entirely sure just yet. When i simply just underscaled the stock maf it ran absolutely great, gear changes were so quick! I will have a look for a 997T file on here! Shot for that! How much power are you making now? |
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prj
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« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2017, 09:15:00 AM »
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I was predominantly referencing the who-hah about "they'll melt!" when evidently people have run them like this for years. Give the info, let the people make their minds up! The reason they fail is they are not really supposed to be pressurized to 40+ psi... That combined with seeing 1000C pretty often severely reduces the service life. Also the temperatures in that map are irrelevant. The map is filled by running lambda 1 on engine dyno steady state. You can see top end is not fully calibrated. In reality because there is at least some enrichment way before that, on a NA application the temps never reach that high... Anyhow, there are no ways to compensate in code for stuff like the lack of KFVPDKSD... This absolutely destroys part throttle, because the ECU is always fighting you. Not a problem on a supercharged car, but a big problem on a turbocharged car. This is further compounded by the lack of pre-throttle pressure correction when calculating throttle control. So you can try to encode this information into the tables, but it sucks during transients. Never mind the hardcoded load limits on some of the ECU's. Lack of boost control - which can be added, but it's all custom code. And so on. Don't get me started on the DSG<->ECU interaction and maintaining proper idle control when doing it right. Oh and asm code mods anyone on tricore DSG controllers? My point is - none of the people on this forum who are hobbyists will EVER get this done right. In fact, most of the "pro" tuners on this forum will never get this done right. It's like the hardest job on the ME7 that you can do. It requires intimate knowledge of the ecu including coding knowledge. |
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Mikhail
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2017, 10:55:55 AM »
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How about the DSG<->ECU interaction  |
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Nick_T
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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2017, 10:59:34 AM »
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You see PRJ, thats why we have you! Kidding, completely understand where you coming from. Thanks for some extra info! And for pointing out again that i need to pay someone to do the job  Anyways, we all know we wont have a car feeling like its from the factory! Im fine with that, all i want is for it to pull like a train when i put my foot down. Thats about it, im sure you know from experience that you actually learn ways to drive a car smoother when it doesnt offer a smooth drive! Driving without boost control is quite a irritation, il definitely agree there, especially at higher boost levels! At 0.7 bar it still feels fine, i can work around the part throttle spool. 1 bar is probably going to be way different. I should probably put my goal out here, im aiming for 350kw on the fly, if im lucky maybe 400kw but no more. Thank goodness i have a manual haha! Stupid question here, how will i know if im hitting a hard limit? Timing retard at a certain hp/nm? Also, PRJ, you by anychance keen on doing ONLY a ASM mod? Limit removal? |
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prj
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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2017, 11:19:03 AM »
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At the moment, not too keen... have too much stuff to do already. Mid-february should be better.
It's also expensive $$$ wise. Because these custom code jobs take obscene amounts of time. I am not talking about the first time when it can take a week to do it (and it never pays off), but even the subsequent modifications where you have most of the code and have to slightly mod/recompile it for another binary.
Because I do this for work, and not as a hobby after work, for me time = money. It is very likely I can remap 2-3 different cars in the time it takes me to do those code mods for you...
With those prices the people who buy this stuff from me, are those who will tune a bunch of these cars in the future, not just their own car, as it's just not really economically feasible otherwise.
Btw as for the topic at hand - to sort the boost fueling you don't need to do anything special. Actually NA ME7 does not care about boost in any special way when it comes to basic timing and fueling.
The issues are with torque control and target load. Actual load it has no problem to calculate because it comes from MAF.
If you want to just drive in a straight line, flip some APPL bits. Make the throttle opening be fixed to the pedal based on RPM.
Kill all torque management. Basically make the ECU like a cable throttle ECU that can only react to what is happening, and not control the airpath.
This of course will not work with an automatic gearbox, but with manual gearbox it will work just fine. Of course you will lose all "smoothness" of the car and it will drive more like a traditional cable throttle car.
But if you only use the car for weekend fun car there is really nothing wrong with that. It will also allow you to bypass all of the load control shenanigans and focus on tuning fuel, spark and camshaft overlap.
From the torque failsafes keep only the ones that are pedal % vs throttle %. So if your throttle for some reason jams open the car will still cut out and not drive you through a wall.
Traction control obviously won't work either.
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 11:27:15 AM by prj »
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Nick_T
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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2017, 11:51:54 AM »
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Ok sweet! Look the car is my daily, but like i said im not toooo fussed about the part throttle driving. With that being said, maybe i haven't experienced a true crappy drive yet haha
Look il get in contact with you mid feb then and see what the damage is, makes plenty sense about the $$$. I didnt realize it would take so long, can see im a full blown noob.
Im going to go the route that you just suggested, see how it goes. Flipping awsome info, so thanks a lot!
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2017, 01:09:24 PM »
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Nick you can also get RPM from an Arud shield with CAN bus onit.. There is free code out there aswell for that..  But thats another topic.. |
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E85oholic
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