cgramme
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 11:00:47 AM »
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.8 lambda, e85, 27° timing full boost, stock rods
, 3 bar msp sensor, mafless rods 24 psi 367whp 312wheel tq. Going on year 3.
Always good to hear success stories with the 1.8t. Any recommendations on the PID tuning with the larger turbo? Have you been running speed density tune ever since upgrading the turbo? I took the approach of limiting torque at lower rpms too. Worked fine for a couple years, and then one day...BOOOM.
You roll the dice every time you step on the pedal with stock rods. I enjoy no longer having to pucker my asshole in fear of total destruction every time I stomp on the gas pedal.
I like the idea of not having to worry about blowing it up every time I get on it. What psi were you running at, and what rpm was your peak torque at? My goals are really pretty mild for this car. Would like to run around 18 psi on 93 oct. I agree though, rods are cheap, I just can't pull my engine right now. |
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BlkSerialKilla
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That's Just The Nature Of The Beast...
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 11:12:55 AM »
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Has anyone done the rods on longitudinal 1.8t in car? Just drop the subframe, remove oil pan and head ?
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 11:27:29 AM by BlkSerialKilla »
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 11:15:13 AM »
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Any recommendations on the PID tuning with the larger turbo?
Check post #2 of this thread What psi were you running at, and what rpm was your peak torque at?
Rod blew up @ 20psi at around 4,500rpm, w/ WMI. Unsure of peak torque numbers, but it was probably around that 300ft/lb range. Marty's setup will blow too, it's just a matter of time.  |
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cgramme
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 11:41:34 AM »
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Seems like the answer to trying to make the stock rods "reliable" is to taper boost. Even if I have to taper from 16-18 psi until new rods go in I'll be happy just to get the turbo in and running. I'll have to read over post #2 thread a few times.
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nyet
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 11:56:21 AM »
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Seems like the answer to trying to make the stock rods "reliable" is to taper boost.
IMO torque kills rods, not high rpm boost. That is to say, peak torque once the turbo is spooled. For big turbos, this isn't as much an issue, since you never really get a big torque spike like you would with k03s and k04s. Big turbo induced motor failure is usually overspin, valve train, or bearing failure due to heat/friction/float at high RPMs Or lean conditions, but if you are monitoring with a wide band, you should be fine. Or detonation, but if you are using more or less stock like KR, you should be fine. Long story short, tapering boost will not save your rods. YMMV, this is a very rough generalization. |
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 11:58:15 AM by nyet »
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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cgramme
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2017, 12:33:31 PM »
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Yes absolutely Nyet, torque is the rod killer. Increasing psi does increase torque in relation to timing, fueling, temperature/conditions. I'm assuming the turbo I'm about to be using will hit 18 psi at 4000 rpm so I may try and do some very light tapering and not hit peak boost until 5000+ rpm. I have a pretty sweet setup using the Android Torque app to monitor afr in graph form (time/afr) real time. I'm using stock KR and still am using the stock rpm limiter for now.
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nyet
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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 12:40:49 PM »
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Sorry, bit of a miscommunication; generally, I read "tapering" boost as having the boost drop as rpms rise, generally to prevent running out of injector, or allow for more timing up top when using pump gas and/or high compression ratio motor.
Not sure what word I would use to describe delaying peak torque...
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 01:43:59 PM »
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I'll have to read over post #2 thread a few times.
And then you can use the program that's on the last page to make perfect boost PID for you. |
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cgramme
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 04:57:47 PM »
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And then you can use the program that's on the last page to make perfect boost PID for you.
Sounds magical, gonna read through it tonight. Sorry, bit of a miscommunication; generally, I read "tapering" boost as having the boost drop as rpms rise, generally to prevent running out of injector, or allow for more timing up top when using pump gas and/or high compression ratio motor.
Not sure what word I would use to describe delaying peak torque...
I can see how it's easily misinterpreted. I definitely appreciate the help though. |
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:11:54 PM by cgramme »
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TijnCU
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flying brick
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2017, 12:09:57 AM »
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I also did a larger small turbo (gt2860r) on stock rods but that is mostly due the block already being at 340.000km and the cost of upgrading the rods will be too large for what is left of this motor. But I can ensure you I did not enjoy the pid calibration with the 70% and up fixed dutycycle on this thing  To do the rods on a longitudinal, you need to remove the subframe at least. I would prefer to take out the block and take your time, replace bearings and seals etc. or do as I did and source a good spare block and build that one. You can take your time and do things properly. I bought a good block (115.000km) for 600€ and after selling all spare parts it didnt cost me anything anymore. |
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cgramme
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 12:46:19 AM »
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Since I am on stock rods and really don't want to surpass 18psi for now tuning on a fixed wgdc it isn't going to help me much past 60-70% dc. I guess I'll tune it for what it can take for now and then try and manually guess what it is at a little higher dc for the time being. Never tuned a larger turbo before... what can i expect running the stock PID's and load maps on first start up?
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fknbrkn
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mk4 1.8T AUM
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 04:31:46 AM »
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just unplug n75 then its not a rocket science, im prefer to pretty linearize kfldrl, adjust few axes for tighter wg (covered in wiki) and then fine tune kfldimx (but im really want to try SB_GLI pid calibration tool; just no time for that  ). its much easier than a nervous little turboes personally i dont get the reason to use stock rods and CR with big turbo setup |
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_nameless
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 07:01:56 AM »
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Always good to hear success stories with the 1.8t. Any recommendations on the PID tuning with the larger turbo? Have you been running speed density tune ever since upgrading the turbo?
I like the idea of not having to worry about blowing it up every time I get on it. What psi were you running at, and what rpm was your peak torque at?
My goals are really pretty mild for this car. Would like to run around 18 psi on 93 oct. I agree though, rods are cheap, I just can't pull my engine right now.
the 4 mo has 230,000 miles on it and the head has never been split form the block, ive personally setup and tuned 10+ big turbo setups local and have had a few drive hours to get setup and tuned over the last 3 years or so and none of them have lost a bottom or bent a rod. k04-015, 001, 023, f21, f23 are the rod launchers end of story. the t04e is perfect for a 1.8t its big enough and laggy enough to be rod safe and with a .63 ar housing is perfect for a 1.8t. |
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Giving your mom a tuneup
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2017, 07:19:07 AM »
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but im really want to try SB_GLI pid calibration tool; just no time for that The way I see it, it's 5 or 6 flashes, all of which can be prepared ahead of time. You can go out and get all the logs you need in about a 1/2 hour. Or, you can try to manually calibrate your PID, which will likely take many more revisions and trial and error, and it still won't be as good as science can make it. |
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KasperH
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 07:45:03 AM »
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The way I see it, it's 5 or 6 flashes, all of which can be prepared ahead of time. You can go out and get all the logs you need in about a 1/2 hour. Or, you can try to manually calibrate your PID, which will likely take many more revisions and trial and error, and it still won't be as good as science can make it. Mine took 1 hour, with me changing the flash after every run, and the boost is spot on with no hunting. A little overshoot, but WAY better than stock |
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