But ur wrong when u say u cant edit timing without a dyno, yes you can, trial and error and safe changes
This is your problem.
You are pointed out your mistake, and you continue spouting your bullshit.
Re-read what I wrote. You don't even know what non-knock limited is or what MBT is.
What kind of trial and error are you talking about in non-knock limited area? What is your "error"? How do you know you made something better? Worse? You don't. The only way to know is instantaneous torque readout on dyno. End of story.
Knock limited area is different story, of course you don't need dyno to tune that - as I said already.
I am as polite or impolite as I want to be. I usually have a pretty low tolerance to bullshit and point it out when I see it, and you very much deserve it.
There is a very big difference between people who don't know anything, but are willing to learn, and between people like you, who don't know anything but think they always know better.
Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall - you have zero knowledge about tuning, you have zero argumentation, but you repeat some regurgitated crap over and over again without understanding what you are saying.
Stop screwing with your ECU, take a book about internal combustion engines READ IT, so you understand how the very basic principles of the engine work, such as what ignition timing does how it affects ignition efficiency, what flame speed is, how it relates to mixture, how mixture affects temperature, how timing affects temperature and so on.
You have NO idea about any of this, yet you are screwing around with digital engine control. This is not a computer game, it is a complex apparatus that produces explosions at a rate of 10000 every minute at 5000 rpm, and you have no understanding at all of it, yet you are trying to poke it. You are not going to get any better of it by reading forums or this forum. This forum is about engine control. To modify engine control you need to know WHY it even exists in the first place and what it does and WHY. You know, a foundation to build on.